Prometheus - Ridley Scott's Alien 'prequel' *SPOILERS*

Music posts are a bannable offense.
User avatar
Ray
ultimate EVIL
Posts: 6723
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:08 pm
Location: pee-pee soaked heckhole

Tue May 23, 2017 7:09 pm

edited for full quick rant
jefferson wrote:If you want a picture of the future, imagine a palm against a human face... forever.

User avatar
Ray
ultimate EVIL
Posts: 6723
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:08 pm
Location: pee-pee soaked heckhole

Tue May 23, 2017 7:09 pm

worst fucking vern
jefferson wrote:If you want a picture of the future, imagine a palm against a human face... forever.

User avatar
Necrometer
crippled god of the universe
Posts: 61300
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:42 am
Location: Feelin' fine.
Contact:

Tue May 23, 2017 7:43 pm

solid mini rant
SPOILERSPOILER_SHOW
I agree that the david-as-frankenstein thing is kind of OK on paper

it's more of a dare I say semiotic transgression, vis a vis prometheus

prometheus frames things in terms of infinite regression: engineers made humans made androids and they're all sentient and nobody is safe. we don't know who made the engineers and we don't know who the androids might make, and that's important to establishing the expansive feel. the goo is concentrated devouring chaos, the anti-life, the raw stuff of nihil-beasts, and everyone is vulnerable*. it doesn't fit into this framework in a meaningful way; it's an interloper and usurper, violently and selfishly entropic

covenant presents a closed circle: humans make androids that make aliens that kill humans ... this roshambo stuff is cute but doesn't serve the Cosmic Horror cause as well as the vastness of the promethean framework does. it's too damn tidy. it makes me feel claustrophobic, and not in the "trapped in a room with an alien" way.

*I'll admit that there's a weakness here: androids are not explicitly shown to be prey of the goo-output/alien - but we assume they will be due to bishop's fate. covenant rewrites things when david fearlessly interacts with the neomorph, which annoyingly collapses things into that tripartite ouroboros
Last edited by Necrometer on Tue May 23, 2017 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
good thing I'll be dead soon, cause I'm tired of liars winning

User avatar
RY4N
DEICIDEDLY METAL
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:25 pm

Tue May 23, 2017 8:14 pm

predator made the engineers!

User avatar
Necrometer
crippled god of the universe
Posts: 61300
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:42 am
Location: Feelin' fine.
Contact:

Tue May 23, 2017 8:19 pm

ahahaha <3
Image
good thing I'll be dead soon, cause I'm tired of liars winning

User avatar
spacehamster
Sweet Lord _______
Posts: 18108
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: just a-passin' thru

Wed May 24, 2017 3:00 am

Ray wrote:
Tue May 23, 2017 6:54 pm

Covenant SHOULD have mostly been
SPOILERSPOILER_SHOW
Of course I'm fine with all of this stuff being abandoned because Prometheus is a dogshit movie and everything it added to the franchise lore was retarded and misguided, but it does seem an awful lot like Scott just went "fuck it" and started over from scratch again. Wiping out the Engineers in a five-second flashback scene being the best example. It's actually kind of hilarious.
As for better writers, let's face it, Ridley Scott's ego is going to ruin all of this. I don't know if it was here that someone already pointed this out, but he clearly overestimates the degree to which this franchise is his idea (same with Blade Runner), and nobody's going to tell him otherwise because he's Ridley Scott and he can do whatever he damn well pleases. He's going to run it all into the ground. The truth is, for as influential as this thing has been, it was basically dead after Aliens and it should've stayed that way. Even though I'm one of the five people who liked Alien 3.
storm shadow wrote:This is what happens when people use the internet to get through adolescence, instead of drugs and heavy metal.

User avatar
doomeddisciple
Olde Timer
Posts: 5557
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:30 am

Wed May 24, 2017 5:06 am

I just saw it, the Kermode review was pretty accurate.
PSN ID- doomeddisciple wii code doomed 0207 2840 2718 1053 Xbox Live - doomtildeath

User avatar
Necrometer
crippled god of the universe
Posts: 61300
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:42 am
Location: Feelin' fine.
Contact:

Wed May 24, 2017 11:33 am

breaking meme-grade review:

Prometheus rewards you for thinking
Covenant punishes you for thinking

also:
http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/34388 ... -covenant/
:tup:
Image
good thing I'll be dead soon, cause I'm tired of liars winning

User avatar
Geeheeb
Shit Stadium 4000
Posts: 23317
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Lansing, MI
Contact:

Wed May 24, 2017 1:11 pm

Gee guys let's take this helmet off!?!!
FVBTVS wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:04 pm
from enslavement to obliteration is older than abbey road

User avatar
Necrometer
crippled god of the universe
Posts: 61300
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:42 am
Location: Feelin' fine.
Contact:

Wed May 24, 2017 2:41 pm

AT LEAST THERE WERE HELMETS

and I was talking about the audience, not the scientist characters (who are free to be just as stupid as truckers tyvm)
Image
good thing I'll be dead soon, cause I'm tired of liars winning

User avatar
doomeddisciple
Olde Timer
Posts: 5557
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:30 am

Thu May 25, 2017 2:40 am

Necrometer wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 11:33 am
breaking meme-grade review:

Prometheus rewards you for thinking
Covenant punishes you for thinking

also:
http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/34388 ... -covenant/
:tup:
As a spectacle - the movie looked fantastic, the Kermode comment on Scott as a world builder is Very true, but there was so much wrong - so much
PSN ID- doomeddisciple wii code doomed 0207 2840 2718 1053 Xbox Live - doomtildeath

User avatar
Necrometer
crippled god of the universe
Posts: 61300
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:42 am
Location: Feelin' fine.
Contact:

Thu May 25, 2017 10:48 am

I just remembered the
SPOILERSPOILER_SHOW
alien POV cam!!! that was laaaaaaaaaaaaaaame, and the goofy snapchat filter they added was certainly not helping things...
Image
good thing I'll be dead soon, cause I'm tired of liars winning

User avatar
doomeddisciple
Olde Timer
Posts: 5557
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:30 am

Thu May 25, 2017 10:12 pm

Necrometer wrote:
Thu May 25, 2017 10:48 am
I just remembered the
SPOILERSPOILER_SHOW
alien POV cam!!! that was laaaaaaaaaaaaaaame, and the goofy snapchat filter they added was certainly not helping things...
Yes, that was not necessary at all
PSN ID- doomeddisciple wii code doomed 0207 2840 2718 1053 Xbox Live - doomtildeath

User avatar
FVBTVS
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 13807
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:14 pm

Sat May 27, 2017 10:00 am

http://www.audienceseverywhere.net/davi ... -covenant/ :fonz:

SPOILERSPOILER_SHOW
If you're inclined (and i dont blame you) to lean on the idea these prequel movies shouldnt exist at all then maybe the link isn't worth reading. Insofar as theres anything to be gained at following the threads that prometheus started i think this movie has, at the very least, the second or third best possible idea on where/why/how it should go and it made the whole thing worthwhile to me. whether its a good movie or not is almost beside the point. It has to be watched charitably just like prometheus was. There's probably maybe kinda 30+ minutes or so of 'good movie' in the whole thing. Anyway, i love that this franchise has always had these AI figures in them that had moments of agency and alien beauty but were always kinda sidelined by the scope of the plot or whathaveyou. In alien 3 (my favorite) the scene with an obliterated bishop having a conversation with ripley is one of the most beautiful scenes in the entire franchise. With prometheus and now this i think we have two movies that are way way more about AI characters than ever. David emerging as the central driving force was a bit of an actual surprise for me and even adds more meaning to his role in prometheus! He's like a long long long gestating and chest bursting surprise emerging from the bloody and stupid corpse of this idiotic fucking property :betternotstartanyshit: I'm actually inclined to laugh at all the terrible shit in this movie as much as you guys but I loved the David stuff in total. Not so much his goofball reveal but the completely insane chest bursting scene where the creature mimicked David was so unambiguously out of control I cannot help but love it. Thats how i've been feeling. That shit was kinda genius guys. The kissing and the fluting and the rhetoric :brokenheart: Also there's always been that movie logic thing where the AI's in the movie weren't really ever in danger except for Bishop at the end of Aliens and you could argue it was a result of a kind of female competition thing between the queen and ripley, You broke my eggs i'll break your friend type a deal. They fucking distort and reappropriate everything they touch including human structures when they make nests and yet not AI?

Also, like, for real.. nothing will be worse than Resurrection going forward. Nothing will be worse than that. Maybe thats two mondays removed monday morning quarterbacking but I dont care. If there's another movie after this one I will bet my life it will succeed or fail based on a completely superior set of criteria than what it takes to appreciate that movie. In terms of ideas, the best you can say about it is that it stole some cool stuff from the comics.

I had way more dumb random musings that kept popping up about this still but a lot of them got lost to the void because i got laid directly after the movie and its been a migraine headache in my life ever since.

User avatar
FVBTVS
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 13807
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:14 pm

Sat May 27, 2017 10:15 am

I didn't really know this way a thing but also I mistakenly saw it in one of these DOLBY branded theatres with completely over the top seats and sound and screen, which in the end, once i got over the utter embarrassment i felt by its bullshit advertising itself to you before the movie even starts? PUNY HUMAN FEEL MY ENTERTAINMENT POWA AND BE AWED BOOOOOOOOOOOM, it was actually amazing.. :lol:

User avatar
FVBTVS
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 13807
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:14 pm

Sat May 27, 2017 10:52 am



also
SPOILERSPOILER_SHOW
i am probably now more than ever %100 against this type of snarky literalism? and these guys do make me laugh but i thought this was totally embarrassing. and hey we all do it to some extent but i dont understand moviegoers search for logic in places where there isn't anything but an ambiguous suspension of logic from the outset? where did the fucking criteria begin? which movie has the original perfect story logic to start with that we're going to draw from?

answering some movie logic questions can be done just as baselessly and creatively as the questioning itself! yo whats up with the gestation period in this stupid movie how comes its not the same as the others? hey maybe the gestation period of these creatures may have slowed down over time due to some survival adaptation in the various places it was seeded into. If it just burst out the moment it could grow maybe that meant it was more vulnerable than if it had time to hide and catch its hosts friends off guard? Since were seeing these mutations happen in the moment we never get to see them over the course of several gestation cycles away from the original host and how or why they get to adapt! or, whoa who cares :lol:

yes its dumb to see things happen in a movie and then change their mind in the middle of the same movie but we're also talking about a biomechanical insect person with concentrated acid for blood that can live in the vacuum of space. i..

as a game, somehow watch that video and type out all their questions and i will eventually attempt to answer them all with my powers of iditocy

User avatar
FVBTVS
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 13807
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:14 pm

Sat May 27, 2017 11:10 am

:barf
SPOILERSPOILER_SHOW
i will also admit that i have had my standards for these types of movies hilariously eroded over time to the point that i can probably somehow enjoy anything. but in my defense, though i'd seen alien and aliens by the sixth grade, i saw alien 3 in the theatre and that was the one that truly belonged to me. i did not knowe it was 'bad' for years and years! iit was my movie moment of disobedience against my creator and any standard of decency.. my paradise lost?

as bad as the cgi looked in places i feel like this had more scattered moments where the creature had some kind of imposing physical heft to it. it was also huge ! and fleeting though it was it imparted the sensation they did in the second movie where they're just so fucking pissed at us :lol: why??? why are they so godamn angry at us??? :lol: i actually laughed so much in this movie..

User avatar
FVBTVS
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 13807
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:14 pm

Sat May 27, 2017 11:20 am

SPOILERSPOILER_SHOW
ridley scott as rapidly aging and demented steward slash creator of a monster franchise concept that parallels the david arc nicely imho..

i didn't build this mess but by jove im going to break it in ways its creators would cower at :lol:

i am the sorta builder and sorta destroyer of worlds!! :ax: :ax: :ax: :ax:

User avatar
Necrometer
crippled god of the universe
Posts: 61300
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:42 am
Location: Feelin' fine.
Contact:

Sat May 27, 2017 11:35 am

FVBTVS wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 11:20 am
powers of iditocy
:tup:

i was waiting for this - almost pm'd you
Image
good thing I'll be dead soon, cause I'm tired of liars winning

User avatar
FVBTVS
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 13807
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:14 pm

Sat May 27, 2017 11:37 am

helmets helmets helmets why don't they wear their helmets! that sure helped cain! wait..


User avatar
FVBTVS
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 13807
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:14 pm

Sat May 27, 2017 11:41 am

Necrometer wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 11:35 am
FVBTVS wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 11:20 am
powers of iditocy
:tup:

i was waiting for this - almost pm'd you
this thread is my de facto pm inbox when i really think about it

User avatar
FVBTVS
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 13807
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:14 pm

Sat May 27, 2017 12:12 pm

Necrometer wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 11:33 am


Prometheus rewards you for thinking
Covenant punishes you for thinking

this remains fairly true, i just have a leonard garcia diego sanchez grade chin for alien related blows to the face doing yes cartwheels forever :cheers:

User avatar
FVBTVS
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 13807
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:14 pm

Sat May 27, 2017 2:16 pm

SPOILERSPOILER_SHOW
Whether human or android, encounters with created beings prompt your own existential anxieties – you become akin to Frankenstein’s creature, asking yourself unanswerable questions: “What does this mean? Who was I? What was I? Whence did I come? What was my destination?” (131). Alien: Covenant replicates this likeness directly: humanity discovers itself to be the creation of beings who seem to find us monstrous, in that they find us to be a dreadful mimicry of themselves, and we thus share in the experience of the android, wondering about a greater meaning that must lie somewhere out in the vast infinity of space. And, as we witness during Peter Weyland’s final scene in Prometheus, the answer to these questions is a nihilistic one: there is nothing awaiting the search for our origin, identity and meaning. These recurring questions, as Frankenstein’s creature finds out, are “answered only with groans” (124).

While David is aware of this metaphysical nothingness in Prometheus, evoking the absurdist irony at the heart of humanity’s quest for meaning, he is also responsible for unleashing it in both Prometheus (where he infects Charlie’s drink with the seemingly omnipotent alien gel, leading to the brilliantly twisted med-pod birth scene) and Alien: Covenant (where he creates a literal dark cloud of death that consumes all life on the planet). And while the ‘inky death cloud’ bioweapon causes us, perhaps understandably, to bemoan a lack of creativity in the film, it does function as a clear metaphor: the dark nothingness awaiting our most urgent questions is not just a vacuum in this franchise, but a dreadful entity waiting to possess and mutilate our very being. And David, whose nonhumanity inoculates him against this darkness, is the ‘person’ who emerges capable of fashioning an answer to this void: he seeks to create “the perfect organism.” David is not just a Frankenstein creature to be abhorred as a monster – he is Frankenstein himself, a being obsessed with creating a “new species” who would exalt him “as its creator and source.” And, again, this obsession is really an inversion of that pursuit: while Frankenstein imagines that “many happy and excellent natures would owe their being” to him (55), David imagines a creature who, to use the words of his fellow android, is “perfect” in its “purity. A survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.”


User avatar
elephants gerald
New Member
Posts: 2092
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:19 pm

Mon May 29, 2017 10:59 am

knowing basically nothing about this movie before it came out, it's a strange coincidence that I JUST re-read frankenstein...and actually visited a by-appointment wing of the ny public library that had a bunch of mary shelley's manuscripts, letters, and things. among this stuff was her personal copy of paradise lost.

so when I was watching this last night, I was unsure at first about whether or not all of the frankenstein/paradise lost stuff I was seeing was actually there or if I just had it all on the brain. now, of course, it seems very obvious (and actually, the PL stuff was given away with the too explicit david-as-satan stuff)

I think the paradise lost stuff ultimately failed, anyway, because david ended up as this kind of stereotypical hollywood unstable lunatic villain type. he lacked the charisma necessary to pull that thing off. and the lack of ambiguity at the end about david and walter was frustrating...

Post Reply