Consumption Be Done About These New Star Wars Movies ?!?!

[spacehamster]

Also, that Plinkett review really is garbage. His first complaint is that the characters aren't likable, but he never justifies that, and the second is, what, that because it's a Star Wars movie, it expects people to know some of the backstory? Like what the Force is and that the Death Star gets blown up at the end of A New Hope? That Darth Vader is a villain?

[Necrometer]

spoilers

I admit that the video's argumentation sucked, but a lot of it rang true for me. So it reaffirmed certain hunches I had. And these nitpicky things can't reasonably be blown out of proportion to say the movie sucked because of them, but they were substantial to me at least. The "context" point, for me, is perntinent because the best parts of the movie were the fandom-dependent parts. The worst parts of the movie were the R1-specific, novel things. It can still be a fun, successful entry to the series without firing on all cylinders, but I feel like you can't claim this is a great piece of cinema if it would fail miserably if re-skinned as a novel story, or, hell, even a WWII story.

Like, the blind dude chanting about the force amounted to a litany of little, rotten easter eggs - we never really saw what the force meant to these guys or how it interfaced with anything else. This is something I want to be shown, not told. Vader is another great example: it's a very bad sign that one of the best moments in the movie comes after all the main characters are dead and a guy who has basically nothing to do with the narrative does a second cameo to kick some ass.

I feel like I actually would have liked this movie more if it'd been edited to remove all the attempts at characterizing the heroes, all the dialogue that was neither enjoyable nor functional in a narrative sense. Mike, I'm on the other end of the spectrum: the third act space stuff was a major highlight. I agree that it wasn't particularly justified, but that was generally in keeping with this movie's pinball plotting. Riley, very happy you got more out of Jyn. Maybe I was spending too much time & energy imagining irrumatio to pick up on why she might be doing anything or how she grew as a person.

The movie didn't necessarily suck for the reasons plinkett mentioned, but those were absolutely the things that rubbed me the wrong way. I think the most underappreciated aspect of this movie was the generally flawless setting/environment visuals (never feeling green-screen-y like TFA could) and the unexpected number of pretty shots we got. All the light/shadow composition trickery worked for me.

[riley-o]

What I got out of the Jyn character:

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She spends the years since her father's capture with Saw, then when he abandons her she is left totally alone in the universe, bouncing around nihilistically assuming her father is dead.

When she is captured by the rebels and discovers her dad is still alive, it gives her a glimmer of hope that she has something left out there and her only motivation is to find her father. I feel like this is understandable and relatable after she watches her mother gunned down and her father kidnapped.

She gets to see her father and we get a nice (although somewhat trite and cinematically overused) scene of closure where he gets to see his beautiful beloved daughter. It was revealed in his hologram that he was forced to build the Death Star for all those years and he wants it destroyed, and the entire time he thought of his beloved daughter Jyn. She now has motivation and drive and purpose to help the rebels destroy the Death Star, and everything after that is simply her on that mission.

All that was maybe obvious and maybe people don't LIKE the character, but I don't see how it can be interpreted as anything but a real three dimensional character who grows as a person and discovers a purpose and fulfills it.

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And then dies

[Whee of the Dead]

I'd love to argue about how worthless this movie is with you guys but it's been more than a week since I've seen it and the only thing I can remember is Vader's Five Finger Death Punch directed 'fuck 'em up' scene. I'm sure it's a hollow condescending toy commercial like the last one.

[riley-o]

That's a much more valid and well-thought-out criticism than Plinkett's.

[Necrometer]

whee

What I got out of the Jyn character:

SPOILERSPOILER_SHOW

She spends the years since her father's capture with Saw, then when he abandons her she is left totally alone in the universe, bouncing around nihilistically assuming her father is dead.

When she is captured by the rebels and discovers her dad is still alive, it gives her a glimmer of hope that she has something left out there and her only motivation is to find her father. I feel like this is understandable and relatable after she watches her mother gunned down and her father kidnapped.

She gets to see her father and we get a nice (although somewhat trite and cinematically overused) scene of closure where he gets to see his beautiful beloved daughter. It was revealed in his hologram that he was forced to build the Death Star for all those years and he wants it destroyed, and the entire time he thought of his beloved daughter Jyn. She now has motivation and drive and purpose to help the rebels destroy the Death Star, and everything after that is simply her on that mission.

All that was maybe obvious and maybe people don't LIKE the character, but I don't see how it can be interpreted as anything but a real three dimensional character who grows as a person and discovers a purpose and fulfills it.

SPOILERSPOILER_SHOW

And then dies

I'm swayed - I definitely "knew" all these elements were there but certainly didn't feel them. I think the other characters acted as distracting clutter, and the Saw thing had me expecting some deeper reveal in one direction, which never came, and left my brain feeling betrayed and despondent wrt investing in the narrative. if I ever see this movie again, maybe it'll work better for me, knowing up-front that everyone except Jyn and her dad is a sucka.

[The Bill]

I loved it. It felt exactly like one of the old Dark Horse Comics Star Wars graphic novels come to the big screen.

[Necrometer]

you guys really aren't going to like this one - worth it for the Sagan/Carson clip during the first minute

she echoes the "clutter" thing that I mentioned & was in the Plinkett vid

seriously is she trying to choose the most obnoxious pooh-poohing strawomyn feminist face for these thumbnails? condescending judgment smirk again and again

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[The Bill]

Sarkeesian again. PASS! She's exactly the type of moron that reads the Da Vinci Code once and suddenly acts like a college professor on all things art and conspiracy. Her opinion is not welcome in my life.

[spacehamster]

God, I fucking hate this cunt.

Also, what is she even doing anymore? I thought her big project was some grand investigation into mursurguner in video games? Why is she reviewing movies now? And if the channel is still called "Feminist Frequency", how come the feminism angle takes up about 10 seconds of this review, and the rest is just... well... a review? Mostly focusing on a perceived lack of character development?

She's also wrong. Jyn has by far the most fleshed-out backstory of any of the characters, and the way her motives are at odds with everyone else's is basically the core dynamic of the plot that makes it interesting. And since when is it a bad thing if a movie uses visual and narrative short-hand to tell its audience what they need to know about the characters without explaining every little fucking thing to death? Like Riley said earlier, I felt like I understood who these characters were and what motivates them just fine. I really hope these internet complainers don't cause an extra 60 minutes of needless exposition in the next SW movie.

[The Bill]

People like her & that other idiot doing the Jerky Boy skit are the reason we have to watch Krypton, the Waynes & Ben Parker die in every single movie.

[Geeheeb]

I have a star wars tattoo and there is so much shit in this movie that is supposed to be catnip for someone like me. I waited this long to see it, and I waited even longer to see TFA. I am very cynical about any new star wars movies. Anyway I liked it more than I thought I would. I could wonder why the rebels put all those ships and resources at risk for the final battle, but then again its lasers in space. I have wasted a lot of my life.

[Geeheeb]

I almost said "hey thats chinballs" out loud.

[riley-o]

I almost told you his name is Ponda Baba, asshole.

[FVBTVS]

yeah maybe it was because i waited and i really dont give a fuck about living anymore but i thought this was fun? it did a slightly grim-dark version of star wars just fine. cast was good? even all the shit plinket complains about wasn't TOTALLY wrong but god who cares

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fucking vader butchery scene was so awesome jesus christ

[Geeheeb]

Oota goota, riles.

[Necrometer]

Jyn has by far the most fleshed-out backstory of any of the characters, and the way her motives are at odds with everyone else's is basically the core dynamic of the plot that makes it interesting. And since when is it a bad thing if a movie uses visual and narrative short-hand to tell its audience what they need to know about the characters without explaining every little fucking thing to death?

I don't think she or I would hope for long-winded explanation of what Jyn's all about. regarding your first point: she indeed has the most developed back-story, since she has one at all. this is like the bare minimum that one could expect for the main character in a movie like this. anita said Jyn "doesn't seem like anyone in particular" - I see this as the same point as test the RLM guys applied to the OT characters vs. the PT characters in the phantom menace review. without saying their name/job/appearance, what is the person like? Jyn is not as bad as the average prequel jobber, but I can't do much better than: sullen, headstrong, untrusting. but there's not a lot more going on... a lot of stuff could be established without a word of dialogue; that worked well enough for Rey in TFA. there was even a scene with Jyn doing something kind for a little girl in "not mos eisley" that got deleted or something. more stuff like that would have gone a long way. I know that her motivations were opposed to those of the main rebel people, but her personality was pretty similar. the complaint is that this movie used too little visual and narrative shorthand to develop her character, not too much.

the critical bar is way way way too high for this - I love Pacific Rim and Tron:Legacy for the escapist romps that they are, are their cardboard protagonists are admittedly more poorly drawn than Jyn. but at least they're surrounded by colorful, memorable characters? here we've only got the C3PO-deadpool hybrid keeping us entertained.

People like her & that other idiot doing the Jerky Boy skit are the reason we have to watch Krypton, the Waynes & Ben Parker die in every single movie.

right dude, she's dumber than you

[riley-o]

Pacific Rim fucking sucked

[Necrometer]

wait nooooooo

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if pacific rim were re-skinned with SW shit people would eat it right up

[Necrometer]

clearly just another dumb idiot who lacking the mental mortal to fill in the emotional cracks between the story bricks

I don't even really dislike this movie, I just dislike the entirety of the disney media empire producing an endless stream of good enough stuff that works almost exclusively on our collective familiarity with other stuff

like, we have billions of dollars spent to secure the rights to this weird and creative universe full of stuff that nobody would ever risk inventing from scratch

[Eight Bit Alien]

Thought it was kinda meh. Will probably enjoy it more with a repeat view.
Great characters, I liked all of them. Taoist Jedi staff whirling master made the flick for me. One thing about this and TFA - they are handling the entire concept of the Force very skillfully. Major, much-needed medicine after the prequels and all the video game bullshit stripping it of all mystery and significance.

I honestly wasn't very emotionally stimulated by anything that happened. The plot was fine and as I said the people in it were likeable, but somehow all the battles and weeepy goodbyes and wins/loses mattered 0% to my heart. Maybe I was in a weird mood.

Totally did not need to digitally resurect fucking Tarkin or Leia. Zero reason for that. People are arguing with me on that for some reason, but could you seriously not write a story about the creation of the death Star without making Tarkin walk into a room? That is an easy job.

Ugly, bad idea. Gross - problematic, possibly toxic.

No CGI character should be in the middle of your shot talking unless it's a monkey named Ceasar. Learn your fucking JarJar lessons. Bugh.

[Eight Bit Alien]

Also rewatching Hannibal ATM - totally thought Mads was tricking that little girl into hiding in a crock pot.

[Geeheeb]

Jedi zatoichi #1

[Honky Kong 64]

This was good fun.

[doomeddisciple]

Finally saw it - I have avoided this thread and the movie spoilers like the plague and I am glad for it.

I get what you're saying about the CGI characters, but in the Star Wars context where there are a tonne of CGI characters with octopus heads, they were there to move the story along and I was fine with it. With the exception of the X and B Wing pilots of old of course.

I loved that it completely dropped any cuteness - the glimpse of 3P0 and R2 was about it - it was grim and bleak. It made more of a sense of a war happening that had high stakes.

The going to lots of planets I also dug.

I need to see it again, I was pretty into it.