Redskins’ Kike Owner Refuses To Change Team’s Offensive Name

[Ogre of Disgust]

It's only "screeching" when the other side does it.

[antinatalism]

we should just genocide the rest of them off, problem solved.

[Wormholegenerator]

[Zap Rowsdower]

[Black Jacques]

Aren't sports teams supposed to be named after awesome things they're trying to emulate on the field/pitch/ice? I mean if there isn't some sort of historical significance to the name otherwise (Ducks/Penguins/Dolphins notwithstanding)? Strong, brutal, proud are traits I think most people think of when they hear 'redskin'... and I think that typifies a lot of the First Nations today let alone 80 fucking years ago when a football team adopted the name. It's not like we're talking about "THE WASHINGTON CHUGS" a team who, since 1923 or whatever, have just gone out and got wasted and crashed their horses into each-other before passing out on the field every single night just to live up to the name. It's the exact fucking opposite isn't it?

I'll also agree that most FN aren't too concerned with the name but, like with any group of people, there's a small subset who are perpetually outraged at everything. Most FN are either too proud to give a fuck what white people do, understand the name in its actual context or think the guy has the right to be an asshole...

[Necrometer]

you have no sense of what it means to be offended by anything because you have never experienced systematic oppression and you're not too great at empathy

I have never seen you indicate any faculty for empathy or compassion whatsoever. You view other humans in terms of utility and capability - weakness and infirmity are character flaws in your eyes, as far as I have ever been able to tell. I absolutely do not believe that you have had some "last five minutes of how the Grinch stole Christmas" miracle conversion towards team has-a-soul; you're just a late-blooming political crank, and you're choking this board to death by using it as a venue to stage pointless little passion plays for your mental fixation. I think you're a fucking nut, and I wish you would just start a blog or go to a place with a bigger (willing) audience like Reddit or the comments section on a Gawker hydra-head. You are Amelia now.

james I love you a lot and respect your opinion so I'll give you an earnest reply on this one

yes I've been especially cruel here; this forum is a bubble that is IMO designated an unsafe space; anyone who strolls in here is signing up for whatever this place has in store. I think some shitty cruelty takes place but I think most of mine is directed towards those shitty posters who either have tons of privilege (schrag RIP) or have essentially abandoned their rights to respectful treatment due to top-tier violations of decent behavior such as earnest rasicm/misogyny/homophobia (jofa, dutkos). it's funny that you bring up amelia because (1) I can't really legitimize my abuse of her beyond her being pathologically irritating, and (2) you're claiming I lack empathy, while comparing me to a person whose only strong suit was being empathetic.

you showing up to snipe at me is really hurtful and smacks of hypocrisy, especially since the last notable thing you "did" was terminally mismanage a music-creation thread... a task I've always treated with respect. anyway, I'm actually receptive to feedback from people here, with the momentary exception of those that are at odds with some idea I'm putting forth. I don't think you're just pissed at me because I think racist mascots are bad, so you have my attention.

you're nuts to be acting like it's odd for someone here to be opposed to the mass media bigotry of something like Chief Wahoo. we're a bunch of subhumans, but it's not fucking stormfront. the apologetics on display in this thread are pathetic and maybe I am just getting too serious lately since I'm actually taking the time to point this shit out.

suggesting that this audience is not willing is pretty much incomprehensible; the feminism thread (biggest offender, I assume?) is pretty clearly labeled and it's not like I'm the one bumping it

I love this community a lot and I owe an incredible amount to it, and I'd listen carefully if you (or anyone) had a half-decent case for me doing more harm than good here... but I really don't think you do

[spacehamster]

you have no sense of what it means to be offended by anything because you have never experienced systematic oppression and you're not too great at empathy

I have never seen you indicate any faculty for empathy or compassion whatsoever. You view other humans in terms of utility and capability - weakness and infirmity are character flaws in your eyes, as far as I have ever been able to tell. I absolutely do not believe that you have had some "last five minutes of how the Grinch stole Christmas" miracle conversion towards team has-a-soul; you're just a late-blooming political crank, and you're choking this board to death by using it as a venue to stage pointless little passion plays for your mental fixation. I think you're a fucking nut, and I wish you would just start a blog or go to a place with a bigger (willing) audience like Reddit or the comments section on a Gawker hydra-head. You are Amelia now.

james I love you a lot and respect your opinion so I'll give you an earnest reply on this one

yes I've been especially cruel here; this forum is a bubble that is IMO designated an unsafe space; anyone who strolls in here is signing up for whatever this place has in store. I think some shitty cruelty takes place but I think most of mine is directed towards those shitty posters who either have tons of privilege (schrag RIP) or have essentially abandoned their rights to respectful treatment due to top-tier violations of decent behavior such as earnest rasicm/misogyny/homophobia (jofa, dutkos). it's funny that you bring up amelia because (1) I can't really legitimize my abuse of her beyond her being pathologically irritating, and (2) you're claiming I lack empathy, while comparing me to a person whose only strong suit was being empathetic.

you showing up to snipe at me is really hurtful and smacks of hypocrisy, especially since the last notable thing you "did" was terminally mismanage a music-creation thread... a task I've always treated with respect. anyway, I'm actually receptive to feedback from people here, with the momentary exception of those that are at odds with some idea I'm putting forth. I don't think you're just pissed at me because I think racist mascots are bad, so you have my attention.

you're nuts to be acting like it's odd for someone here to be opposed to the mass media bigotry of something like Chief Wahoo. we're a bunch of subhumans, but it's not fucking stormfront. the apologetics on display in this thread are pathetic and maybe I am just getting too serious lately since I'm actually taking the time to point this shit out.

suggesting that this audience is not willing is pretty much incomprehensible; the feminism thread (biggest offender, I assume?) is pretty clearly labeled and it's not like I'm the one bumping it

I love this community a lot and I owe an incredible amount to it, and I'd listen carefully if you (or anyone) had a half-decent case for me doing more harm than good here... but I really don't think you do

You really need to get your Asperger's treated, but I'll let Jame explain to you how you just completely and utterly missed his point, he seems to do a better job at pointing out how insane you are. Probably because he doesn't have a personal reason to hate you.

It's only "screeching" when the other side does it.

Thread over, really.

[Natas]

you have no sense of what it means to be offended by anything because you have never experienced systematic oppression and you're not too great at empathy

I have never seen you indicate any faculty for empathy or compassion whatsoever. You view other humans in terms of utility and capability - weakness and infirmity are character flaws in your eyes, as far as I have ever been able to tell. I absolutely do not believe that you have had some "last five minutes of how the Grinch stole Christmas" miracle conversion towards team has-a-soul; you're just a late-blooming political crank, and you're choking this board to death by using it as a venue to stage pointless little passion plays for your mental fixation. I think you're a fucking nut, and I wish you would just start a blog or go to a place with a bigger (willing) audience like Reddit or the comments section on a Gawker hydra-head. You are Amelia now.

james I love you a lot and respect your opinion so I'll give you an earnest reply on this one

yes I've been especially cruel here; this forum is a bubble that is IMO designated an unsafe space; anyone who strolls in here is signing up for whatever this place has in store. I think some shitty cruelty takes place but I think most of mine is directed towards those shitty posters who either have tons of privilege (schrag RIP) or have essentially abandoned their rights to respectful treatment due to top-tier violations of decent behavior such as earnest rasicm/misogyny/homophobia (jofa, dutkos). it's funny that you bring up amelia because (1) I can't really legitimize my abuse of her beyond her being pathologically irritating, and (2) you're claiming I lack empathy, while comparing me to a person whose only strong suit was being empathetic.

you showing up to snipe at me is really hurtful and smacks of hypocrisy, especially since the last notable thing you "did" was terminally mismanage a music-creation thread... a task I've always treated with respect. anyway, I'm actually receptive to feedback from people here, with the momentary exception of those that are at odds with some idea I'm putting forth. I don't think you're just pissed at me because I think racist mascots are bad, so you have my attention.

you're nuts to be acting like it's odd for someone here to be opposed to the mass media bigotry of something like Chief Wahoo. we're a bunch of subhumans, but it's not fucking stormfront. the apologetics on display in this thread are pathetic and maybe I am just getting too serious lately since I'm actually taking the time to point this shit out.

suggesting that this audience is not willing is pretty much incomprehensible; the feminism thread (biggest offender, I assume?) is pretty clearly labeled and it's not like I'm the one bumping it

I love this community a lot and I owe an incredible amount to it, and I'd listen carefully if you (or anyone) had a half-decent case for me doing more harm than good here... but I really don't think you do

james' reply was a true board highlight. I do respect your thought out replies as usual even if they are usually devoid of much empathy or other emotion. I'd rather get mad at tons of replies in a long discussion like this than have no discussion at all. And I really don't want to point out who's getting their feelings hurt here but the anti-redskin side is taking this at least as hard, and I still feel, looking for something to get offended by b/c we live in a country where even the poor folk have an iphone and an ipad and don't have time to worry about real shit.

I agree with BJ: It's an ode to the Indians. Old movies with Indian themes were huge back in the day. Kids watched the lone ranger or the Rifleman and played cowboys and Indians, not xbox. If they had superthreads back then it would have been about that, not a two hundred page gaming thread. Hell, half of the country or more is names after Indian names for this and that, from coats to coast. Maybe they should change the name to the Washington Lifehackers.

[featherboa]

you have no sense of what it means to be offended by anything because you have never experienced systematic oppression

Anyone going to respond to the actual point, instead of just calling the messenger a robot? It's not even supposed to be an insult.

[spacehamster]

you have no sense of what it means to be offended by anything because you have never experienced systematic oppression

Anyone going to respond to the actual point, instead of just calling the messenger a robot? It's not even supposed to be an insult.

Who in this thread has experienced systematic oppression? Ross?

[featherboa]

Nobody?

[Necrometer]

the anti-redskin side

the ambiguity here is priceless

Who in this thread has experienced systematic oppression? Ross?

unwhites, the socioeconomically disadvantaged, the trans, the gay, the fat, the mentally ill, maybe the punx

it really is incredible to hear college educated straight white dude(s) talking about how red is merely a color of skin and that caricatures are cute and meant to communicate respect and reverence

[Natas]

Nobody?

As a white male I do not know what systematic oppression is like. But I still feel the name should not be changed. I know there are many organizations against it and much public sentiment so if it changes then fine. I like how the Jew owner is sticking to his guns though. He didn't buy the team with that name and I don't think he "has" to change shit. Can't we all at least agree that the government should not decide this? Do you want them judging morality in business like this? If the NFL decides to change it I'll live with it. But don't you think it's bullshit for their trademark rights to be limited? Who the F made that call?

Every debate has organizations on each side of it. Is that really all it takes?

[Necrometer]

Can't we all at least agree that the government should not decide this? Do you want them judging morality in business like this?

I don't think anyone here is pushing for it to be changed because it's the law.

I do think it's reasonable for that law to exist; all it means that if you want to have a hate-promoting logo or whatever, that you can't use the government to protect you from other people using it. It's not that you CAN'T use it, it's just that you're on your own with it. I think it's OK for a government to say "no, we won't protect your racist cartoon from being ripped off".

[THE KILL]

[spacehamster]

Can't we all at least agree that the government should not decide this? Do you want them judging morality in business like this? If the NFL decides to change it I'll live with it. But don't you think it's bullshit for their trademark rights to be limited? Who the F made that call?

Near as I can tell, it's just the law. You can't trademark a racial slur. I was thinking yesterday that maybe the next addition to my attempts to save this thread via Photoshop should be "Nigger Stringer Upper", a brand of rope. Or maybe they could call it "Nigga Stringa Uppa" and say "nigga" is a term of endearment in Hip Hop culture and they actually meant to acknowledge the contributions African Americans have made to contemporary American pop culture.

Anyway, my personal take-home from all this is that it's been pretty interesting to find out that the US does actually have "hate speech" laws, just in a different form to, say, France, Germany, or Switzerland. And for a hyper-capitalist society like yours it actually makes a lot of sense for it to be embedded in trademark law - you can say what you want, as long as you don't try to make money doing it. I mean this 100% without snark, it really is surprising and interesting to me that this exists.

But a bunch of white guys on a message board arguing about whether or not "redskin" is a slur, that's just hilarious, I'm sorry.

[Natas]

Let's be smart here: The N word isn't nearly the same as the word redskin. My question is, is the word redskin a racial slur? I don't feel they named them the Redskins as a racial slur.

Anyways, do you trust the government to decide these matters? Or just when you agree with them? Not only the racial controversial matters, but the moral ones. I don't.

[the awesome Assassin]

Go Dolphins!

[spacehamster]

Let's be smart here: The N word isn't nearly the same as the word redskin. My question is, is the word redskin a racial slur? I don't feel they named them the Redskins as a racial slur.

Merriam-Webster says it's "usually offensive", and I'm gonna go ahead and say they're probably more of an authority on the subject than either one of us. Which isn't to say that what is and isn't an offensive word is somehow as objectively observable as the speed limit, language usage is determined by what a sufficient number of its speakers do with it. Evidently Merriam-Webster is of the opinion that a sufficent number of Americans consider "redskin" to be an offensive term. That's how dictionaries work.

Anyways, do you trust the government to decide these matters? Or just when you agree with them? Not only the racial controversial matters, but the moral ones. I don't.

Okay. I'm not about to get into an argument about whether or not the US needs hate speech laws anymore than I think any American should be lecturing Europeans about their interpretation of freedom of speech. I think we can all agree that this is, for all practical purposes, tantamount to censorship, but I don't think the patent office did anything "wrong", they pretty much just did what they legally had to do. Maybe that law needs to be changed. Maybe you should be able to trademark Nigger Stringer Upper rope, if enough people are offended by it, you won't make a dime anyway.

[Necrometer]

I just feel like I'm not about to tell a vocal group of native americans that they're wrong that me calling them Redskin is not ok. I think it's apparent that at its root, it's not a nice word. I don't give a fuck about my "right" to use the word cause I don't use it. And I certainly don't give a fuck about a football team's "right" to use this specific word.

If anyone thinks I've been saying much beyond this, please check your sources. I think Wahoo is way more offensive than the R-slur, too, fwiw.

[Black Jacques]

But a bunch of white guys on a message board arguing about whether or not "redskin" is a slur, that's just hilarious, I'm sorry.

What if a college educated Métis took part?

How about a status Indian? Do you just keep a tally like we were doing earlier in the thread?

Is racism subjective? Is it determined by committee/consensus amongst the victims? Do you put the word in its intended context or do you just check the dictionary?

What about "Big Chief", is that ok? Negro? Usually offensive? What unoffensive usage of redskin do you think Merriam Webster had in mind when they defined the word?

[FVBTVS]

The Detroit Negroids

[FVBTVS]

for a bunch of dudes that abhor and screech about shysterism we sure have a lot of slippery back bending argumentation here

[Black Jacques]

The Detroit Negroids

Touche...

[hipster holocaust]

you have no sense of what it means to be offended by anything because you have never experienced systematic oppression and you're not too great at empathy

I have never seen you indicate any faculty for empathy or compassion whatsoever. You view other humans in terms of utility and capability - weakness and infirmity are character flaws in your eyes, as far as I have ever been able to tell. I absolutely do not believe that you have had some "last five minutes of how the Grinch stole Christmas" miracle conversion towards team has-a-soul; you're just a late-blooming political crank, and you're choking this board to death by using it as a venue to stage pointless little passion plays for your mental fixation. I think you're a fucking nut, and I wish you would just start a blog or go to a place with a bigger (willing) audience like Reddit or the comments section on a Gawker hydra-head. You are Amelia now.

This is absolutely amazing