NBA THREAD: Toilet Fleet Jr 2013!!

[TF@work]

also let me just take a minute to firmly reestablish my place on the anthony davis is going to be the best player in the league in 6 years' time bandwagon. there is no comparable skill set. remember that dwight howard team that made it to the nba finals with a largely anonymous cast of shooters? okay, but davis could actually win a title with that lineup. seriously, with a healthy anderson and holiday, that team is fighting for a playoff spot in the west, and probably is a 3/4 seed in the east. and that's with davis not having a low post game yet, putting himself out of position on defense (which is just an experience thing), and picking up his dribble too early when driving the lane

if the pelicans get healthy and get a halfway competent player at center (seriously, ajinca, stiemsma, and withey? LOOK OUT SAN ANTONIO), they are a second round or better playoff team. if they can swing all that *and* get some more shooters, they're in contention for the finals.

on next year's books: gordon, evans, holiday, anderson, davis, rivers, morrow (player option), miller, roberts, ajinca (ugh), withey (ughhh), babbitt. that puts them $10 million under, assuming a flat cap number for 2014-15. can they get the necessary pieces with $10 million? eh, maybe. they are going bare in the draft, which is... okay i guess? they're at the level of mediocrity which probably won't score them a player better than holiday, but still, assets. can they get a big and another spot-up shooter for $10 million is the question. monroe in the middle? meeks as an off-the-bench 2? is this finally a spot for the jimmer? the mind reels.

[Natas]

Sounds like someone read Zack Lowe's Grantland article on AD

[TF@work]

i didn't get around to that one yet, but i think every point i brought up has been worked to death in every single article i've read/heard about davis. also i think i fucked up the pelicans' salary math but i'm not a cap master by any stretch. i think they'll only have cap room for either a semi-competent big or a B+ shooter (come on take the big take the big YOU CAN EVEN OVERPAY MONROE IT'S FINE NOBODY CARES)

thinking about it, it's going to be interesting to see how his career develops as compared to griffin. davis may never catch griffin with regards to a low post game, but griffin will never match davis mid-range and beyond. davis is at a clear position/franchise disadvantage (never thought i'd say that about somebody compared to the clippers!). thinking about that, now i'm totally backtracking on the holiday move. a pick and noel at rookie wage scale? even if noel turns out to be mediocre, that's at least mediocre! frees up nearly $8 million net, which would be more than enough to get a shooter and a serviceable true 5. heck, you could have run a noel/davis front court; plunk noel in the paint, and even if he gets beat up, that means you're almost guaranteed a mismatch with davis. oh man from deal agnostic to deal glen benton in like three sentences!

[Zerohero]

i didn't get around to that one yet, but i think every point i brought up has been worked to death in every single article i've read/heard about davis. also i think i fucked up the pelicans' salary math but i'm not a cap master by any stretch. i think they'll only have cap room for either a semi-competent big or a B+ shooter (come on take the big take the big YOU CAN EVEN OVERPAY MONROE IT'S FINE NOBODY CARES)

thinking about it, it's going to be interesting to see how his career develops as compared to griffin. davis may never catch griffin with regards to a low post game, but griffin will never match davis mid-range and beyond. davis is at a clear position/franchise disadvantage (never thought i'd say that about somebody compared to the clippers!). thinking about that, now i'm totally backtracking on the holiday move. a pick and noel at rookie wage scale? even if noel turns out to be mediocre, that's at least mediocre! frees up nearly $8 million net, which would be more than enough to get a shooter and a serviceable true 5. heck, you could have run a noel/davis front court; plunk noel in the paint, and even if he gets beat up, that means you're almost guaranteed a mismatch with davis. oh man from deal agnostic to deal glen benton in like three sentences!

I think you can always move a guy like Holliday even with a high salary...there's always teams with cap space that can't attract thee premium big names that can use a guy like that.

[TF@work]

movable, sure, but the pelihornets will not get anywhere near the potential value and (most importantly) flexibility they'd have if they stuck with the noel-davis towers project. holiday is the archetypal point guard for an inside-out offense. however, those kinds of players are substantially more common than top-level bigs. for sure davis/noel wouldn't have been robinson/duncan, but they would have been a real head-scratcher and matchup nightmare for literally every other team in the league. talk about custom built to challenge the heat: elite rim defense times two that would force lebron and wade to shoot from the perimeter, where they are surprisingly ineffective (i think lebron is like, notably average from 15-18)

oh well, shoulda coulda woulda.

[Zerohero]

movable, sure, but the pelihornets will not get anywhere near the potential value and (most importantly) flexibility they'd have if they stuck with the noel-davis towers project. holiday is the archetypal point guard for an inside-out offense. however, those kinds of players are substantially more common than top-level bigs. for sure davis/noel wouldn't have been robinson/duncan, but they would have been a real head-scratcher and matchup nightmare for literally every other team in the league. talk about custom built to challenge the heat: elite rim defense times two that would force lebron and wade to shoot from the perimeter, where they are surprisingly ineffective (i think lebron is like, notably average from 15-18)

oh well, shoulda coulda woulda.

you are so dead on about that type of pg being a pretty common find. They are important but seem to grow on trees vs the top level big that's more rare to find than bigfoot.

I think cavs flubbed this chance to get a big, twice... skipping drummond for Waiters, another ball dominant guard, and skipping Noel because of his injury. Now they have a roster of guards and little else. Are those guards "talented"...absolutely. But you do down all nba rosters and more have a talented pg than don't. Including loads of stinky lottery teams.

[TF@work]

i was in gay basketball love for drummond ever since i first saw him get a ball in his hands. he's absolute dogshit from the line, but who cares? on a team with actual talent around him, he's probably 18/14/2.5, and that's with a nightly 6/13 from the line.

i was so big on the cavs' future given their recent draft fortunes... and they pissed it down their leg, like you said. okay, so drummond was a project, even if he was going to get you ten boards a night no problem. but then they pick waiters? kinda undersized at the 2 with lackluster three point shooting waiters? probably won't gel with a volume shooting point guard waiters? uh, okay.

normally i'd grant them than bennett was an interesting and not necessarily bad pick given the flimsiness of that draft; even though noel clearly has much more upside, bennett looked like he could spread the floor as an undersized 4. but bennett had shoulder surgery! if they were scared of noel because of his acl (which is such a common procedure/fix, it's not even on my radar as a future value red flag in a teenager), then why go with bennett who also went under the knife? whatever. cavs gonna cav.

[Zerohero]

i was in gay basketball love for drummond ever since i first saw him get a ball ball ball in his hands. he's absolute dogshit from the line, but who cares? on a team with actual talent around him, he's probably 18/14/2.5, and that's with a nightly 6/13 from the line.

i was so big on the cavs' future given their recent draft fortunes... and they pissed it down their leg, like you said. okay, so drummond was a project, even if he was going to get you ten boards a night no problem. but then they pick waiters? kinda undersized at the 2 with lackluster three point shooting waiters? probably won't gel with a volume shooting point guard waiters? uh, okay.

normally i'd grant them than bennett was an interesting and not necessarily bad pick given the flimsiness of that draft; even though noel clearly has much more upside, bennett looked like he could spread the floor as an undersized 4. but bennett had shoulder surgery! if they were scared of noel because of his acl (which is such a common procedure/fix, it's not even on my radar as a future value red flag in a teenager), then why go with bennett who also went under the knife? whatever. cavs gonna cav.

Waiters has blossomed this year... not volume chucking as much, and I'm finding out he's a capable passer too. Like his moxy and passion to win too... But fact is, he's one of those guys with an NBA skillset that is readily available. The didn't NEED a waiters they needed a Drummond. I haven't seen TONS of Drummond, but when I watch him, he's always getting some dunks and always a presence in the paint and on the boards. He's a BAD man, and he ain't even a man yet. And the Drummond error pushed cavs to the Bennett errorr...could have take Olidipo to use as a 2 in last draft.

Bennett I don't know--- he seems like a shy 12 year old mentally. a nice kid...but I think you want a real sonnavabich not a guy you trust to get your mail and feed the cat. I think his shooting was over-stated. His work ethic is pretty questionable too. Best case he becomes a NBA level player instead of the D-Leaguer he is right now. Total waste of #1 pick and the big salary associated with it. Next year, he'll be cavs 3rd highest paid guy.

Going back to the Irving draft cavs cavved it up with the 4th pick of Tristian Thompson...who at best is another JJ Hickson--who they already had. Thompson is so inconsistent...sometimes seems yeah guy's pretty decent. other times you don't notice him until you see box score. He lacks toughness and grit..just like Zeller...a big softie. Cavs also shit the bed with the other first rounder last year this russian kid (ANOTHER guard!) that has got about 5 minutes of PT the whole year. GM deserved to be fired.

[TF@work]

i think waiters is totally fine for what he is, which is a non-transformational but solid 2 that, in a solid draft class, is like an 11/12. drummond isn't much more than a top 10 in a good draft either, but he is just so fucking big that his lack of skills or refinement aren't really deal-breakers; and if he becomes a 65% free throw shooter, he's suddenly a 20 a game guy without breaking a sweat. fuck post moves, get rick barry on the line.

bennett's shooting isn't what it was, and that's unfortunate. his range was actually good good, not just college good; maybe it's playing out of position (i'm not 100% sure what in-position is for him in the modern nba), maybe it's the level of defense he didn't see in what was still a mid-major for all its recent successes.

good news for cleveo: there's a decent chance that a guy like vonleh could fall to 8th or 9th! he's not a freak like drummond, but he's a solid defender and rebounder. bad news is that their next five: at hawks, bobcats, pistons, at bucks, celtics. they could go 4-1 if they're not careful!

[Natas]

http://rtnba.com/top-10-most-overpaid-p ... n-the-nba/

Arenas is making 23 million this year

Enjoying the Spurs/OKC game now

[Wang Mandu]

Get that money, Gilbert. Why did they not amnesty him?

[TF@work]

who wrote that listicle? a 15 year old? internet basketball isn't the new york review of books but jesus christ

to be clear, arenas was amnestied by orlando. that doesn't invalidate the monies owed under the contract, it just takes it off the books insofar as counting against the cap and any luxury taxes.

also just for funzies decided to see how my boy gordon hayward is doing out there in whiteland. just around average, looks like! i'll root for the kid; never thought a lanky doofus from butler would remain in the league this long, but here we are! really bummed to see his outside shooting plummet the way it did. if he can get back up to like 38% suddenly he becomes way way sexier

[Zerohero]

who wrote that listicle? a 15 year old? internet basketball isn't the new york review of books but jesus christ

to be clear, arenas was amnestied by orlando. that doesn't invalidate the monies owed under the contract, it just takes it off the books insofar as counting against the cap and any luxury taxes.

also just for funzies decided to see how my boy gordon hayward is doing out there in whiteland. just around average, looks like! i'll root for the kid; never thought a lanky doofus from butler would remain in the league this long, but here we are! really bummed to see his outside shooting plummet the way it did. if he can get back up to like 38% suddenly he becomes way way sexier

Hayward looked good in the handfull of jazzgamezzz i've watched, which ain't many. But looks like he'll have a solid role in NBA.

I think Kanter is better than he was, but gotta be viewed as a disapointment given how high he was drafted.

Serious. Jazz. Tawk.

[TF@work]

he's a remarkably good rebounder for not being what the kids in 1997 call shaq diesel. if his outside game also rebounds (HuR HUR HUR), he's a very very interesting 3: not at all a slashing wing, but good size to spread the floor and crash the boards. he's got this tweener game and lack of melanin that makes him seem like a typical spurs player.

i'm really interested to see what the spurs do when the inevitable happens and their big 2.5 becomes a big 1 plus kawhi leonard. they rotate deep, so they can still be competitive with just parker and guys, but how do you replace duncan, who is in the running for top 5 modern nba player? i mean apart from that magical one-year tank to get him in the first place. okay so never mind.

[Ray]

is it the playoffs yet

[Zerohero]

is it the playoffs yet

almost mens... another week or so

[Ray]

I know... but I haven't been watching much except for matchups of West teams that are currently like 9-5 seed. Shit's exciting.
The Rockets are in a freefall without Beverley/Howard/Jones. I thought they would have handily won that Toronto game with just Terrence Jones playing - holy SHIT were they depleted inside, even if Asik is a monster.

While Beverley has been out, Jeremy Lin hasn't been doing much but hitting his head on his ceiling really, really hard.

JUST HOLD THE 4TH SPOT

[TF@work]

I know... but I haven't been watching much except for matchups of West teams that are currently like 9-5 seed. Shit's exciting.
The Rockets are in a freefall without Beverley/Howard/Jones. I thought they would have handily won that Toronto game with just Terrence Jones playing - holy SHIT were they depleted inside, even if Asik is a monster.

While Beverley has been out, Jeremy Lin hasn't been doing much but hitting his head on his ceiling really, really hard.

JUST HOLD THE 4TH SPOT

lucky for them, after the thunder they're playing 5 straight games against teams .500 or worse. even with the depleted lineup, can't go worse than 3-3, probably go 4-2. bad news is portland is at home for 5 of their next 6, with their only road game against the jazz.

i'm not sure which late-season push i'm more interested in: the knicks (!!!!) gunning for the playoffs, or the philadelphia/milwaukee dog shit olympics

[valgalder]

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p47kaReg ... e=youtu.be<

[Natas]

[Zerohero]

holy hell Toronto... given if you polled 1000 people on the street you wouldn't find one that could name a single player or the coach, that's a hellava steep ticket price.

they must think they are the Maple Laffs that people beat off to and throw money at no matter what

[bland ed]

i just want Igo Mendoza Gallegos to write some more tunes

[Ray]

OKC is a small market franchise huh?

[bland ed]

http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/04/n ... zalea-home

"All dat ass"

[TF@work]

OKC is a small market franchise huh?

they are, though; 45th in metro area, and around there in tv household rankings.

but as we've learned from okc and miami, market size just don't matter anymore. the cba makes all teams valuable again, and the new max contract rules favor teams in tax-friendly states. the only two states that are both income tax-free and have nba franchises? texas and florida.

what's interesting to me is the way max contracts are totally fucking with the notion of an nba middle class. 90% percent of teams are in the "sign more than one max guy and get pieces" mindset. using current numbers, even if every team could somehow find 2 guys worth baseline max, that means to stay under the cap, every other player on the roster is pulling in an average of 1.7 mil.

unrelated: get chandler out of new york and onto a team that could use rim protection and okay pick-and-roll without the need for post offense. if jackson's running the show, it would follow that he's going to try to build a team that runs the triangle (which would actually work with carmelo, imho). there's no place for chandler in the triangle. set him free, get some pieces.