Expensive-looking 50 Shades of Grey thread of mommy-porn

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

I would bet my life that 50 Shades of Shit was somehow a product of one of those silly Graduate Creative Writing programs.

the prose ross is posting is like freshman-level writing. graduate programs may be filled with terribly conceived and executed ideas, but on a technical level, this 50 shades stuff is on an entirely separate plane of shittiness. also i'm pretty sure it started as twilight fan fiction (someone might have mentioned that already?)

this is so bad i'm not totally convinced ross isn't editing what he's posting... i don't want to believe so many people could force themselves to read hundreds of pages of this stuff.

I've been through an MFA creative writing mill. Ugh.

Depending on the program, you might occasionally see prose that shitty, but it's not as common as all the writers trying to ape the New Yorker style, and generally their prose is by far better (even if the stories are often assy). Generally they can't get accepted to one based on the strength of their writing samples. More esteemed programs, no way. You'll never find shit this bad in, say, Columbia or Stanford or Iowa or whatever. (Though there's plenty shit writing there, just of a different type.)

50 Shades is just awful amateur writing.

[riley-o]

As for how it can be real and be that bad... think of the dialogue in porn films!

Okay but, and oh my, not to defend porno, but any dialogue or story is tacked on as an afterthought to get the fuck scene going or is ad-libbed from the drug-addled mind of (again) a teenage girl.

A better comparison would be soap operas imho, but again that's shit that gets written for five times a week. AND I seriously doubt any soap opera writers are pulling seven figures for that week.

[Necrometer]

ad-libbed from the drug-addled mind of (again) a teenage girl

they're everywhere!

[riley-o]

I like it when they have cum on their face

Otherwise no thank you

[Spooky Apparition]

I'm absolutely not editing the shit - if anything the excerpts I post will seem less retarded because I am not italicizing all the "oh my" stuff which somehow makes it seem stupider. As for how it can be real and be that bad... think of the dialogue in porn films!

the part that blows me away, and i think riley was getting at this, is that people will overlook dialogue in porn to get to the fucking, but people will overlook the dialogue and descriptions in a book like this to... get to more of the dialogue and descriptions?

i just checked out some user reviews, and a lot of positive reviews acknowledge how badly written it is. it's like the shittiness of the individual lines actually compels people to read more shitty lines in the hope that thousands of those shitty lines will create something worthwhile in the end. "by the third book it got pretty good!" i just don't know anymore

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

Oh, another thing...

Some publishing houses are recruiting MFA students to ghost write on spec new YA and generally crap mashups. This is how I Am Number Four was born (it's like Twilight but with aliens!). They're just trying to throw as many ideas out there as they can until one happens to stick and then they can roll around in the dummy dollars. These student writers hope to make contacts in the publishing world that will pay off down the line for their "real" writing, only to find out that they hardly get paid for writing a book, their name isn't mentioned anywhere, and real publishers don't want to publish their molestation memoirs or failing marriage stories or whatever else is big in MFA mills.

Popular fiction has always been bad, it's true. There were shit stories 100 years ago too (only they maintained a modicum of writing skill). But along with the bad there was the good, when people eagerly awaited the new Faulkner, national workplace productivity slipped because people were calling in sick to read the new Hemingway. People fucking read.

I think the issue here is competition. People no longer read because of television and internet and social media and communication gadgets. You introduce those things and after a couple generations, people can barely spell. The age of the novel has passed. It is what it is.

[riley-o]

the part that blows me away, and i think riley was getting at this, is that people will overlook dialogue in porn to get to the fucking, but people will overlook the dialogue and descriptions in a book like this to... get to more of the dialogue and descriptions?

Yeah, pretty much. It's like, the dialogue in porno is a universal joke, right ? But it's tolerated so you can watch a nubile wench suck a dick. What the fuck are you tolerating the terrible writing in these books for ? A terribly written fuck scene from the POV of a virgin ? Christ. Fucking women.

[Necrometer]

It's like, the dialogue in porno is a universal joke, right ? But it's tolerated so you can watch a nubile wench suck a dick. What the fuck are you tolerating the terrible writing in these books for ? A terribly written fuck scene from the POV of a virgin ? Christ. Fucking women.

I'm not sure if I can put this into words, but in these books it's not the "how" that's appealing - it's the "what". And I can totally relate to my own porn-standards. If I want to see a chick eat cum off her toes, I'm going to watch whatever scene I can get that ticks that box. For the readers of these shit books, the main problem is that there isn't a huge market that ticks these particularly fantasy-fulfillment boxes, and I sincerely doubt such a market can exist. To write stuff this culturally base pretty much demands that the writer be either diabolically cynical or naive. The latter applies to 50 Shades' author, and the former... some masterful writer who is going to churn out hundreds of pages about naivete, losing virginity, ipads, and distant/saveable 27yo billionaires? I don't know if that person exists. You have to HATE your audience to know how to write and deliver the what of these stories.

It is what it is.

This defeatist phrase is on the top of my current cultural shit-list; a lesser contributor would have faced an irreversible FOEing for this transgression. Good post otherwise.

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

The age of the novel has passed. It is what it is.

People will still publish, don't worry. There will be new novels, great novels. That won't stop. But it's a niche activity. Book stores will eventually transform into kiosk-sized areas with big displays for a few young adult type series (they're almost like that now). You'll have to get your real novels from European and university presses exclusively.

[riley-o]

It is what it is.

This defeatist phrase is on the top of my current cultural shit-list; a lesser contributor would have faced an irreversible FOEing for this transgression. Good post otherwise.

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

[

It is what it is.

This defeatist phrase is on the top of my current cultural shit-list; a lesser contributor would have faced an irreversible FOEing for this transgression. Good post otherwise.

Is this from some self help book or something? One of my bosses at work said the same thing, we aren't to ever use that phrase. Weird coincidence? Or did you read this in a manifesto somewhere?

Anyway, let me try to explain my stance...

I used to rail against the dying of literature, but it honestly doesn't matter because a culture chooses the entertainment it wants and what it values as art. I happen to believe that a fine novel--the kind that is art, not entertainment--provides THE most powerful experience we can have, and it's a shame any culture that doesn't value that anymore. But a culture chooses. And it is what it is. Not defeatist, but a declaration of the obvious. Our people prefer the steady drip feed of reality TV and convenience communication. It's overwhelming. A landslide.

Doesn't mean I'm going to stop reading. But it means accepting that I might be one of the final generations to engage regularly in this experience. It makes me sad, but most, no, most people would rather die than have to read a novel. I'm not going to say I'm any more right, even though I find it a shame. This thing is happening, it is, and I accept that it is happening, what it is.

[Necrometer]

I guess the implied sentiment is "it is what it is and that is OK"... I understand your stance but if you can help it, just don't use that particular phrase. I have never heard anyone express opposition to that phrase. It just felt terrible to me after thinking about it and its recent upsurge.

[canon.docre]

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

It is what it is.

This defeatist phrase is on the top of my current cultural shit-list; a lesser contributor would have faced an irreversible FOEing for this transgression. Good post otherwise.

Guys, it totally depends on context. Statements modifier each other. You can't just disavow a sentence in all contexts. That's stupid.

"I'm dying of cancer."
"I can't believe she likes spinach, I hate spinach."
"My culture doesn't like to read."

It is what it fucking is.

With context it can be a statement of acceptance. If it were only defeatist, you'd be implying that my terminal cancer could be beat if I just didn't give up, that my opinions on vegetables are more right than someone else's, and that I need to fight my culture to make it read books when it doesn't want to.

[Natas]

I knew you guys would get worked up over this. You get worked up over everything. But I'm the angry guy....

[Necrometer]

I disagree, KRB. The cliche is meaningless at best.

Here's an apologist's take... note how he doesn't make sense or compel:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... what-it-is

my terminal cancer could be beat if I just didn't give up, that my opinions on vegetables are more right than someone else's, and that I need to fight my culture to make it read books when it doesn't want to.

yes, yes, and yes!

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

I think we're not going to see eye to eye on this one. I'm not in total favor of this phrase. Only sometimes. But I don't discredit it completely and in all situations like you do.

God, that link was awful; what was he even blathering about?

As to the three examples I gave, are you saying you don't agree with my take on those? If you think that terminal-no-getting-out-of diseases are something you should fight (with attitude and available treatment) anyway, I'd say yes, but I've always hated the war analogies with cancer, you have a "battle" against cancer, like your direct level of wanting to live can pull you through and that's simply not the case. Some cancer is game over no matter what. Oops, guess my uncle didn't really want to live through his leukemia, he fucked up the battle, what a quitter. That's bullshit.

Anyway, we could talk about the relativity of opinion and culture, but I don't think we agree fundamentally on this.

I just hate it when preachy fuckers like the guy at work insinuate I'm a defeatist quitter because they don't understand how I'm using that phrase. I'm not an apathetic guy. And because words take on meaning by their context, and I care a lot about words, I feel like the dogmatic aren't trying to see my point.

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

...I guess it is what it is.

[Necrometer]

Just say c'est la vie, and everything will be OK, man. Your coworkers are right on this one. You're making a case for relativity and context here - and that's exactly why this one's doomed: it's the most clueless losers that use that phrase. Dutkese.

It is used by film stars when their movies bomb ("Listen, it is what it is. I don't think we deserved to be eviscerated the way we were," said Brad Pitt after the release of Meet Joe Black), and by pop stars when caught violating the law ("I made a mistake, and so it is what it is, I guess," said Britney Spears after being photographed driving with her infant son on her lap).

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sp ... is_it.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERTT_sv8sV0

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

Just say c'est la vie, and everything will be OK, man. Your coworkers are right on this one. You're making a case for relativity and context here - and that's exactly this one's doomed: it's the most clueless losers that use that phrase. Dutkese.

Uh, with that stunning argument, you've changed my mind. Usually you engage more honestly than that.

Your answer actually made me regret using my uncle dying in my explanation. Goddamn you, Ross. Sorry, uncle.

[Necrometer]

Matt, I'm being real. Is it poor taste to follow "guilt by association" when it comes to a phrase so redundant and malleable? It's overused and, in my opinion, meaningless. It's filler. It doesn't need to be. If all these same assholes were saying c'est la vie in place of their ums, then that phrase would get the ax. No disrespect intended toward your uncle.

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

Just say c'est la vie, and everything will be OK, man. Your coworkers are right on this one. You're making a case for relativity and context here - and that's exactly this one's doomed: it's the most clueless losers that use that phrase. Dutkese.

It is used by film stars when their movies bomb ("Listen, it is what it is. I don't think we deserved to be eviscerated the way we were," said Brad Pitt after the release of Meet Joe Black), and by pop stars when caught violating the law ("I made a mistake, and so it is what it is, I guess," said Britney Spears after being photographed driving with her infant son on her lap).

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sp ... is_it.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERTT_sv8sV0

Oh you edited. No fair.

Okay, I skimmed the article. Probably one of the more weaker pieces I've seen at Slate. I could argue it into powder.

But now I'm finding out, apparently it is a thing, this "hey that phrase is lame." I'm not jumping on that bandwagon yet. I think there's a way to use this that doesn't entail apathy or whatever. Fuck. Maybe I'm doomed, now that it's being dissected like this.

[Necrometer]

You understand that I was earnestly suggesting use of c'est la vie (the phrase) as an IIWII substitute, right? We could pragmatically destroy or bolster either, but the cultural writing is on the wall for IIWII's demise.

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

Matt, I'm being real. Is it poor taste to follow "guilt by association" when it comes to a phrase so redundant and malleable? It's overused and, in my opinion, meaningless. It's filler. It doesn't need to be. If all these same assholes were saying c'est la vie in place of their ums, then that phrase would get the ax. No disrespect intended toward your uncle.

Well, maybe I'm living under a rock. I had no idea this phrase is huge in the sports world because I don't follow sports. I didn't know it had reached epic cliche status. If it's now in the realm of the irretrievable cliche, then fuck it, there are better ways to communicate.

[Blair]

national workplace productivity slipped because people were calling in sick to read the new Hemingway.

Hemingway... old tyme video games...