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Eight Bit Alien wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 4:36 pm R - I do not want to spoil ww2 for you.

But in case you do not see the fascist movie about Jews conquering fascism, I am obligated to inform you that the throughout the Manhattan project, the working assumption was that the weapon would be dropped on Hitler's head. Understand that we believed Hitler was about to use one on us, sneak preview of the cold war.

The atomic bomb was developed to kill Hitler and end the war.

Once it was developed, the war in Europe was very advanced and the Axis was already losing there. We dropped the bomb on Japan in August 1945.

Germany had already surrendered by May of 1945.

I agree with the nonsensical nature of nuking germany - I'm not trying to say that ANYBODY should be nuked. I'm saying that nuking a city is a war crime (preposterous levels of civilian casualties & ecological devastation), and doing something that unconscionable was seen as tolerable because of xenophobia.

I tried to substantiate your claim that the plan was always to nuke hitler's curiously brunette head, and I could not. this article suggests they kinda sorta considered it, but my gut says they wouldn't have done it for the same reasons the rates of internment were so radically different in the US for germans vs. japanese.

Brutus Frank wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 3:42 pm

THE KILL wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 3:08 pm

Brutus Frank wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:18 am Hippie pacifists paying to see a movie: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ ... -1.1843438

can't access from Krautland - what does it say?

thanks!

Hasn't it already been established that Japan were going to surrender anyway (mainly due to Russia getting a major foothold in Japan's territory in mainland Asia) and the nukes were an unnecessary show of force by to us to the Russians to let 'em know who daddy was?

I could be wrong but I read somewhere that Tokyo actually had more bombing victims than Hiroshima and Nagasaki

"They would have/were going to surrender" is definitely a revisionist position. I can't say categorically that it's false, but I don't think anyone would say that it's firmly established.

The sentiment at the time was that the Japanese (men women and children) were so ferociously propagandized that they would all kamikaze forever and things needed to be stopped abruptly, by forcing a surrender from the Emperor. This is clearly a convenient summary from USA perspective, and I'm not sure if it's perfectly accurate. They wanted to avoid a situation (like iraq, Vietnam and Afghanistan ) where the normal population became insurgents. There are some incredible stories of stuff like that.

Those Japanese soldiers isolated in various parts of the Pacific, who continued to carry out their roles in the war for decades because they hadn't heard (or didn't believe) that the Emperor had called for surrender... always lent some credibility to the idea, but I definitely don't know for sure.

The relationship at that time between the general Japanese population, the Emperor, and the Shinto religion is absolutely fascinating. I wish people knew more about it. I think it led to the most tragic transition into modernity for any stable "developed" nation.

i think i'm going to see Meg 2.

james I don't take issue with too much of your summary. I take issue with the asymmetry of the harm: japan attacked our MILITARY BASE and i'm not aware of them having any credible plans of fucking with mainland US. so if they aren't a credible threat to our civilians, I think it's terroristic war crime shit to wipe out massive numbers of their civilians.

the other asymmetry is with the inaction regarding germany's actions: they were conquering other countries and performing ethnic cleansing in those other countries... that's one of the rare cases where intervention makes sense. I was admittedly pretty ignorant about the second sino-japanese war - it sounds like a real shit-show and presumably Japan were the "bad guys"... I'd probably be more open to a narrative around the nukes being used to end that war. but that's not what I tend to hear.

The temperature near the blast site reached 5,400 degrees Fahrenheit. The sky seemed to explode. Birds ignited in midair; asphalt boiled. People over two miles away burst into crumbling cinders. Others with raw skin hanging in flaps around their hips leaped shrieking into waterways to escape the heat. Men without feet stumbled about on the charred stumps of their ankles. Women without jaws screamed incoherently for help. Bodies described as "boiled octopuses" littered the destroyed streets. Children, tongues swollen with thirst, pushed floating corpses aside to soothe their scalded throats with bloody river water.

Foot Foot wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 10:43 ami think i'm going to see Meg 2.

endorsed & cleared by my PC fuck superego; I think it will embody a nuanced perspective between humanity, technology, and the ecosystem (in this case: statham, jetski/katana, and humongous shark)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women

These would be a good starting point

I know it was unspeakably brutal

it's just another thing where the US didn't give a shit until someone messed with their boat club

I feel like that war had largely run its course by '45 ... so what, we're doing vengeance nukes now?

let's all just agree to instead watch truman workshop his "little lady, you plumb done never gon' need to bat an eyelash 'bout that birth control" joke

Eight Bit Alien wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 2:22 pm https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women

These would be a good starting point

If we're devolving to the level of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" then you might all well say America deserved it when the towers where hit.

There is never justification ever for any reason by any military in the deliberate killing of civilians. There is never any reason ever that justifies the use of torture techniques. If you can rationalize the use of torture against the most evil members of society you can rationalize using it on anyone.

"Presumably Japan were the "Bad Guys" "

Eight Bit Alien wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 2:22 pm https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women

These would be a good starting point

"Nah bro see bro you gotta understand bro that it's asymetrical bro because they didn't attack us bro they just attacked our military base bro that stuff you mentioned couldn't have mattered to us bro because we are selfish self centered pieces of shit bro fuck america bro we were the real villains of post european victory bro"

Brutus Frank wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 3:19 pm "Presumably Japan were the "Bad Guys" "

Eight Bit Alien wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 2:22 pm https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women

These would be a good starting point

"Nah bro see bro you gotta understand bro that it's asymetrical bro because they didn't attack us bro they just attacked our military base bro that couldn't have mattered bro because we are selfish self centered pieces of shit bro fuck america bro we were the real villains of post european victory bro"

You're a complete fucking idiot.

this is my favorite thread

I didn't mean to write a novella but i accidentally did. Nobody needs to read my next post

Private American interests definitely bankrolled Hitler, and there was an ideological component to that. Hitler pointed favorably towards segregation in the US as a working model for how to be a historic tribal cheiftan. This is definitely conspiratorial conjecture on my part, but I think arming a world power against "international Jewish bankers" may have appealed to financiers who were competing with institutions like Rothschild, Rockefeller etc. To point specifically at American money, Chase were honorary SS - always thought the Chase bank logo had a funny, symmetrical style to it wonder where Meatgrease puts his unemployment money. Ford himself had a legitimate personal impact on antisemitism in Germany, as an author and not just as a guy doing car stuff.

Shit like eugenics was super widespread here for a long time. Some suprising names come into that history... I only learned recently that Margaret Sanger from the Birth Control League/PP was in full-on 8chan mode and probably got a bunch of people sterilized. Again there was a direct relationship between that culture here and what eventually happened in Europe.

I have a magazine from the 1930s which was printed in New Jersey, which has an article about the upcoming launch of the Hindenburg. It has a few beautiful photographs of the ship, complete with the GIGANTIC swastika nobody ever told me about in school. The article lavishes praise on Hitler, and his successes in revitalizing the German economy. The German-American bund is a pretty well-documented thing. Opinion was very divided but absolutely did not turn 100% anti-skub until 1942.

All that said, I think the true explanation for our hesitation in entering the war is just isolationism and a non-interventionist spirit. It's no different from the discussion about Ukraine today (minus the forever-war aspects I guess). Most Americans were genuinely naive about the holocaust until the 1970s; the world is full of atrocities, and most people simply dont incorporate them into their conception of history unless encouraged to through institutions or whatever. Bombing civilian targets was pretty widespread in WW2, and I dont know how I'd go about establishing any particular eagerness to nuke the Japanese for ETHNIC reasons as opposed to the fact that they were an axis military power who declared war on us.

Too much to get into here, but there's TONS of shit out there talking about how we handled reconstruction in Japan as respectfully as possible (much better than in France) which I don't think we would have done if the spirit was as you say.

I'll finally say this - we've had ~70 years of KGB-provoked anti-imperialist revisionist history pouring out of every academic institution in the country. In the same way we successfully undermined Soviet society, they hoped to undermine ours - and that situation produced every criticism of our civilization and its moral roots that you could ever hope to read.
Although I'm no expert I don't think I've ever heard anyone make your proposal. Not saying you couldn't be a pioneer.

Fun fact - the first issue of Captain America had a cover featuring Cap punching Hitler in the face, and winning the war. It was published 11 months before Pearl Harbor! The guys at Atlas (proto-Marvel) got in fights with the German-American Bund, which was a block or two away. Dont know how serious it was but they definitely yelled at each other on the street. Those guys were Jewish (as were many in the industry) which obviously supports the ZOG hypothesis. I am not joking, that is my true and honest final thought unironically. Thank.

And again, I'm not joking whatsoever when I say I'm 100% in favor of waterboarding ganders, both good and bad, because of 9/11 (which was a CIA hologram).

I'm in favor of ripping the dicks off male ducks because all ducks are rapists ( even to the point of being necrophiliacs) and their dicks fall off and grow back anyways.

Just a side note on eugenics. I think there is a certain element today where the Christian right and business class elites intersect in a form of anti/reverse eugenics ( or maybe just a different subset of eugenics?) where instead of the typical mass sterilization / planet depopulation conspiracy you normally hear where there seems to be a conspiracy to keep having poor people shit out many kids as possible so there would be an endless supply of dumb, poor, disenfranchised, destitute people who are willing to work the shittiest jobs for the least amount of pay. That's why the right is becoming so militant on anti abortion, anti birth control, pro "traditional marriage, have as many kids as you can ( especially if you're white otherwise the immigrants and Chinese and Indians win)" if I was prone to conspiracy theories, that one would seem the least far fetched.

you guys HATE the working class. You HATE them

Yeah I'm not working class. I rode my gold plated hydrofoil to floating helipad where I was eating a
Faberge egg frittata on my way to buy a spare Dumble amp.

I just realized you're right, nevermind

I also don't think meatgrease was unemployed and his girlfriend was a human female.

Hahaha. He definitely admitted to being on the dole which i thought was weirdly honest for him

Eight Bit Alien wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 4:29 pm Hahaha. He definitely admitted to being on the dole which i thought was weirdly honest for him

I don't know if it's that weird considering a lot of right wingers claim they are just "stealing their taxes back" but he also claimed to be in support of a heavy regulatory state and social safety net as long as it was within the frame work of being extremely nativist and for true white Americans or whatever. I really don't want to waste to many brain cells trying to recall the form of government he claimed to support.

It would be funny if you heard him talking to his mom on the phone and he said "No I didn't SAY that the jews ruined Magic: The gathering of the juggalos, what I SAID was..."