Wiisconsin "Well, you'll work hard with a gun in your back"

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Well this thread has pretty much died, but I'm going to keep posting updates here. As more and more people read the bill, more heinous shit comes out. I haven't read the whole thing, so I didn't see this.

238.02 Creation and organization of corporation. (1) There is created an authority, which is a public body corporate and politic, to be known as the “Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation.” The members of the board shall consist of the governor, who shall serve as chairperson of the board, and 11 members nominated by the governor, and with the advice and consent of the senate appointed, to serve at the pleasure of the governor.
...
(5) Accept gifts, grants, loans, or other contributions from private or public sources.

What could go wrong?

I think most people know now that it also includes no-bid sales of publicly owned power plants. There are horribly unconstitutional semi-warrants out for the democratic state senators (FUCK YEAH), but they'll only be "detained" if they're found, not "arrested." Layoffs (meaning political retaliation) might start as early as next month, I think.

The new budget for the next biennium (not the repair bill, which is for the current budget) reverses the new law saying that insurance companies have to cover prescription birth control. It completely cuts the state womens' health program. Public education is going to get fucking dismantled, with cuts for Milwaukee (MPS is a disaster. The graduation rates are horrendous. There are several really excellent schools, but there is a huge dropout and, uh, pregnancy problem. It's also a pretty huge district, and so costs a lot of money... for BROWN CHILDREN. Republicans hate MPS.) that might hit $500 per STUDENT last I heard.

Nobody seems to really know what breaking UW from the UW system will mean, except that all of the good staff and resources will go there instead of to the smaller schools (meaning mine), and everybody's tuition is going to go through the roof. The statewide library sharing program might get shut down. He turned down $23million in federal money for broadband infrastructure.

I don't want to live in a banana republic funded by toilet paper and Walmart.
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I know, but I'm still going to post interesting bits when they pop up.

You're right though, facebook and twitter have actually been useful for once. Most of my info comes from reddit.
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Molester Stallone wrote:I like this thread and all, but it seems people outside of the state on this board don't care too much about it. Whatever....

Facebook has actually been pretty cool as far as people getting information out about our current crisis.
I care, bleeding heart and all, and regardless of whether anyone else cares or not, I am sure they appreciate that this is one thread in the post-tweeter era as opposed to one or more threads per day.

also, it's not fucking retarded, well except Torsion's contribution, for the reasons described by TF. Regardless of your opinion on actual policy it's pretty easy to pick winners and losers in the spin-cycle, whether propelled by actual substantive events or clever agit-prop, and being caught on tape suggesting sabotaging working class people to one of your corporate bosses is a pretty good get for one side and a huge fucking blunder for the other and has helped the momentum snowball. It would be like if Clinton was caught on tape on a party-line during the Lewinsky scandal. Or if Nixon was caught on tape during the....well, anyway...

I also think the right picked the wrong state a) for thinking they would be pushovers and b) in terms of Wisconsinites being the mildest, older, whitest, least offensive people in America. No majority-minority presence, or too many loony-tunes liberal arts lefty spazzes in these crowds which probably deeply confuses the Fox News crowd.
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Chevalier Mal Fet wrote:Or if Nixon was caught on tape during the....well, anyway...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
HEAD BOPPAZ RECORDS YOU BITCH-ASS HOES
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One good thing to come out of this: ironic usage of the term "fat cat" when describing people or things. These fat cat librarians...
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i'm also liking "big _____," like, "man, those fucking teachers have their fingers in Big Education." that's a bad example but i can't remember any of the good ones right now...
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These fat cat teachers, wanting more benefits just because they're far more educated than the average American... we already give them our precious Box Tops for Education, what else could they possibly need?
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Chevalier Mal Fet wrote:also, it's not fucking retarded, well except Torsion's contribution, for the reasons described by TF. Regardless of your opinion on actual policy it's pretty easy to pick winners and losers in the spin-cycle, whether propelled by actual substantive events or clever agit-prop, and being caught on tape suggesting sabotaging working class people to one of your corporate bosses is a pretty good get for one side and a huge fucking blunder for the other and has helped the momentum snowball. It would be like if Clinton was caught on tape on a party-line during the Lewinsky scandal. Or if Nixon was caught on tape during the....well, anyway...
Spin? Would you call someone wealthy who donated 40 grand to an Al Franken campaign his "corporate master"? You know what, you're right, it is spin. You can literally prank call someone, record the conversation and hype it out the window despite the fact that it contains no information besides the same basic talking points because people already have their minds made up. Boogeyman politics.
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check the excerpt from the bill i reference on an earlier page, or better yet, just read the whole thing. or better yet, realize that pushing this through sans the fiscal details reveals what a sham the entire argument presented at the onset was. goddamn man.
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I read it, man. And yet your point is still predicated on the assumption that David Koch and Scott Walker have even had a discussion about this stuff.
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i do think that is probably true, but even if they hadn't, a provision like that doesn't depend on a prior conversation for interested parties to take advantage of it to the detriment of a lot of people. if the goal is to carlos slim-ify most of america, it's a good idea though.
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Honestly, the Koch family seems to donate to almost anyone who campaigns for the reduced government, less taxes, less spending, less entitlements, less subsidies, less regulations, less tariffs line. That includes being against fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan ending the Drug War and being socially very live and let live liberal but I think they're pragmatic and understand that principled, consistent libertarian types are a very rare thing in American politics or anywhere else's politics so they'll support the handful of Republicans who will at least campaign on a smaller government platform. They've had a big share of haters from the libertarian fringe like Rothbard, Raimondo, probably Kevin Carson too.
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The Torsion wrote: Spin? Would you call someone wealthy who donated 40 grand to an Al Franken campaign his "corporate master"? You know what, you're right, it is spin. You can literally prank call someone, record the conversation and hype it out the window despite the fact that it contains no information besides the same basic talking points because people already have their minds made up. Boogeyman politics.
Image

Exactly. You have got to be smart enough not to fall for it. Didn't Palin get pranked during the election too?

And comparing Koch's hard and soft money influence, particularly the latter to a typical or even higher level, Franken supporter (check Open Secrets, not one individual donated even $10K to Franken's campaign, if that). Franken's only total campaign contributions from "single sources" are the combined employees of GE, the combined employees of Time Warner, the combined employees of the Univ. of Minnesota and Act Blue, a donation pooling operation consisting of tons of small donaters. Again you can factor in the soft money on Franken's side (unions buying issue advertising), but this is dwarfed many times over by Koch's operations (Americans for Prosperity is running a $350K ad buy in Wisconsin). And this scale repeats itself country-wide.

As for your downplaying of the "gets" of this particular call, the call itself or a stunt like it up-plays them or hypes them because it is in fact a quite a bit beyond the talking points to the extent I am actually sure you are commenting on this without having heard the tape or read the transcript.

Was Walker publicly crowing about all the petty little punishments he is meting out on the 14 Dems? No, but to impress Koch:
Walker: The Senate organization committee is going to meet and pass a rule that says if you don’t show up for two consecutive days on a session day, in the state Senate, the Senate chief clerk-it’s a little procedural thing here, but-can actually have your payroll stopped from being automatically deducted-"

Murphy/Koch: Beautiful.

Walker: -into your checking account and instead-you still get a check, but the check has to be personally picked up and he’s instructing them-which we just loved-to lock them in their desk on the floor of the state Senate.
The very next sentence "Koch" refers to the Democrats as bastards and Walker plays right along. Again, it's a lot easier to make a case (either case) when you have the asshole on tape, shucking and grinning along. Then there's this gem:
The other thing is I’ve got layoff notices ready. We put out the at-risk notices. We’ll announce Thursday, and they’ll go out early next week. And we’ll probably get 5 to 6,000 state workers will get at-risk notices for layoffs. We might ratchet that up a little bit, you know.
Again, using layoffs and then additional layoffs as a political pressure tactic, I don't remember that in any of Walker's press conferences. Or this lovely exchange:
Walker: And my sense is, hell, I’ll talk to them. If they want to yell at me for an hour, you know, I’m used to that, I can deal with that. But I’m not negotiating.

Koch: Bring a baseball bat. That’s what I’d do.

Walker: I have one in my office; you’d be happy with that. I got a Slugger with my name on it.
Uh, yeah, talking points.... i'm not even counting the tacit approval and consideration of agent provocateurs.

So after hearing this, if you already hated Koch/The Bill, you have a whole new pile of ammunition, if you supported Koch/The Bill you may feel a bit more sleazy doing so openly, and most importantly if you were on the fence, all the hyperbole the opposition spouted about Walker is confirmed straight out of the horse's mouth, and you start leaning. And they have started leaning. Significantly, and that too is starting to repeat nationwide.

This is in the same spirit as Obama's "Clutching to guns and religion" gaffe, only moreso. For example, if instead Obama was caught on tape with Soros, saying "Yeah, we'll have these, like Death Panels....and I have a taser ready for those pro-life bastards" that is basically the equivalent of what a monumental fuck up this is.

All politics is boogeyman politics.
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The Torsion wrote:That includes being against fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan ending the Drug War and being socially very live and let live liberal
You forgot also that David Koch at least is publicly pro-gay marriage - I wonder if the Teabaggers knew they were riding on buses rented by a queer-lover, how icky they'd feel. I'd also be genuinely interested in any kind of quantification of their donations to causes or personal lobbying against the any of the above wars. If they are laissez faire on business issues and only lip-service libertarians on actual liberty issues, then their position on those things in the context of who they are is not very relevant to the discussion. Their money talks, how much "talking" have they actually done over these years for those causes?
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The Torsion wrote:I mean, did he even give up any more details than what he's said the whole time? It sounded like a guy talking to a big name donor and politely going over the same talking points he would at a press conference. It sounded like a guy placating his crazy grandpa on his birthday.
I read the transcript. Playing the same set of dirty games that every jerkoff in public office is playing including the ones against him isn't exactly surprising. But ugh, Christ, I almost forgot what an arrogant asshole you are on here...I think the biggest difference between people like you and me (I'm sure you believe it's intelligence as well) is that the political intrigue isn't a game I'm interested in.

None of that ACORN crap was impressive either. Cheap tactics to mug for attention...
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The Torsion wrote: I read the transcript. Playing the same set of dirty games that every jerkoff in public office is playing including the ones against him isn't exactly surprising. But ugh, Christ, I almost forgot what an arrogant asshole you are on here...I think the biggest difference between people like you and me (I'm sure you believe it's intelligence as well) is that the political intrigue isn't a game I'm interested in.

None of that ACORN crap was impressive either. Cheap tactics to mug for attention...
Again, i call bullshit when I see it, your downplaying of the conversation as simply "talking points" was dramatically disingenuous.

And, ideally I would prefer a world where problems were worked out honestly, in good faith, pragmatically, with no biases, special interests, kumbaya, shangri-la, but that is not reality. Politics (in any system) is always a game of competing socio-economic interests, picking winners and losers, shouting the loudest and the longest, etc... as a libertarian that is practically an article of your faith, the intrigue is an essential part of that game and will always be with us. I believe in many causes but very few people/parties, it's less disappointing that way.
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Chevalier Mal Fet wrote: Again, i call bullshit when I see it, your downplaying of the conversation as simply "talking points" was dramatically disingenuous.
Yeah, how much of what he said in that conversation came across as a big secret that he would only tell to his fucking Dark Lord of The Sith or whoever? This thing was supposed to be a smoking gun that David Koch was this guy's corporate overlord.
Chevalier Mal Fet wrote: And, ideally I would prefer a world where problems were worked out honestly, in good faith, pragmatically, with no biases, special interests, kumbaya, shangri-la, but that is not reality. Politics (in any system) is always a game of competing socio-economic interests, picking winners and losers, shouting the loudest and the longest, etc... as a libertarian that is practically an article of your faith, the intrigue is an essential part of that game and will always be with us. I believe in many causes but very few people/parties, it's less disappointing that way.
Article of my faith? Fuck off and don't make so many sweeping assumptions. You want to know why it's a fucking game and douchebag intrigue is constantly afoot? Centralized power and authority.
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The Torsion wrote:
Yeah, how much of what he said in that conversation came across as a big secret that he would only tell to his fucking Dark Lord of The Sith or whoever? This thing was supposed to be a smoking gun that David Koch was this guy's corporate overlord.
Again, that particular spin pre-existed the prank, the prank helped solidify that spin.
Article of my faith? Fuck off and don't make so many sweeping assumptions. You want to know why it's a fucking game and douchebag intrigue is constantly afoot? Centralized power and authority.
You can't get defensive about your faith and then start spouting off the Lord's Prayer of said faith in the same sentence. I would love to see a Libertarian "Survivor" where they drop 50 of your ideological compatriots onto an island or game preserve and see how long it takes for the maneuvering, manipulating, backstabbing and inevitably consolidation and centralization of power to begin. I give it maybe 3 hours.

This is Hobbesian human nature 101, and I'm the liberal here who's supposed to deny Hobbes premise. Law of the Jungle, state of nature... y'know, eat or be eaten, don't bring a knife to a nuke fight.
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Holy shit. I'm going to try to get to Madison on Friday or Sunday. Half a century of work undone in half an HOUR.
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Shit.

Hey Molester, if you're still there on Sunday, say howdy. It looks like I might have to bus it there, but I'll be there at least until Monday, if it happens.
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I guess I have to be back by Monday, for another rally at UWM. Walkout rally tomorrow at noon. I heard Alberta Darling's recall campaign got 1/4 of the necessary signatures in one weekend, and Walker's is over 100k out of 540k.
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I only clicked once, Ross. I pwomise.
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This is a good sign, right?

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Can't wait for undercovers to start throwing rocks! Yeah!
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did you bring a baggie containing a bandana soaked in apple vinegar for the tear gas?
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