Wiisconsin "Well, you'll work hard with a gun in your back"

Music posts are a bannable offense.
Post Reply
User avatar
Chevalier Mal Fet
O.G. Interwebber
Posts: 4652
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:02 pm
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Contact:

The Torsion wrote: Spin? Would you call someone wealthy who donated 40 grand to an Al Franken campaign his "corporate master"? You know what, you're right, it is spin. You can literally prank call someone, record the conversation and hype it out the window despite the fact that it contains no information besides the same basic talking points because people already have their minds made up. Boogeyman politics.
Image

Exactly. You have got to be smart enough not to fall for it. Didn't Palin get pranked during the election too?

And comparing Koch's hard and soft money influence, particularly the latter to a typical or even higher level, Franken supporter (check Open Secrets, not one individual donated even $10K to Franken's campaign, if that). Franken's only total campaign contributions from "single sources" are the combined employees of GE, the combined employees of Time Warner, the combined employees of the Univ. of Minnesota and Act Blue, a donation pooling operation consisting of tons of small donaters. Again you can factor in the soft money on Franken's side (unions buying issue advertising), but this is dwarfed many times over by Koch's operations (Americans for Prosperity is running a $350K ad buy in Wisconsin). And this scale repeats itself country-wide.

As for your downplaying of the "gets" of this particular call, the call itself or a stunt like it up-plays them or hypes them because it is in fact a quite a bit beyond the talking points to the extent I am actually sure you are commenting on this without having heard the tape or read the transcript.

Was Walker publicly crowing about all the petty little punishments he is meting out on the 14 Dems? No, but to impress Koch:
Walker: The Senate organization committee is going to meet and pass a rule that says if you don’t show up for two consecutive days on a session day, in the state Senate, the Senate chief clerk-it’s a little procedural thing here, but-can actually have your payroll stopped from being automatically deducted-"

Murphy/Koch: Beautiful.

Walker: -into your checking account and instead-you still get a check, but the check has to be personally picked up and he’s instructing them-which we just loved-to lock them in their desk on the floor of the state Senate.
The very next sentence "Koch" refers to the Democrats as bastards and Walker plays right along. Again, it's a lot easier to make a case (either case) when you have the asshole on tape, shucking and grinning along. Then there's this gem:
The other thing is I’ve got layoff notices ready. We put out the at-risk notices. We’ll announce Thursday, and they’ll go out early next week. And we’ll probably get 5 to 6,000 state workers will get at-risk notices for layoffs. We might ratchet that up a little bit, you know.
Again, using layoffs and then additional layoffs as a political pressure tactic, I don't remember that in any of Walker's press conferences. Or this lovely exchange:
Walker: And my sense is, hell, I’ll talk to them. If they want to yell at me for an hour, you know, I’m used to that, I can deal with that. But I’m not negotiating.

Koch: Bring a baseball bat. That’s what I’d do.

Walker: I have one in my office; you’d be happy with that. I got a Slugger with my name on it.
Uh, yeah, talking points.... i'm not even counting the tacit approval and consideration of agent provocateurs.

So after hearing this, if you already hated Koch/The Bill, you have a whole new pile of ammunition, if you supported Koch/The Bill you may feel a bit more sleazy doing so openly, and most importantly if you were on the fence, all the hyperbole the opposition spouted about Walker is confirmed straight out of the horse's mouth, and you start leaning. And they have started leaning. Significantly, and that too is starting to repeat nationwide.

This is in the same spirit as Obama's "Clutching to guns and religion" gaffe, only moreso. For example, if instead Obama was caught on tape with Soros, saying "Yeah, we'll have these, like Death Panels....and I have a taser ready for those pro-life bastards" that is basically the equivalent of what a monumental fuck up this is.

All politics is boogeyman politics.
User avatar
Chevalier Mal Fet
O.G. Interwebber
Posts: 4652
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:02 pm
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Contact:

The Torsion wrote:That includes being against fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan ending the Drug War and being socially very live and let live liberal
You forgot also that David Koch at least is publicly pro-gay marriage - I wonder if the Teabaggers knew they were riding on buses rented by a queer-lover, how icky they'd feel. I'd also be genuinely interested in any kind of quantification of their donations to causes or personal lobbying against the any of the above wars. If they are laissez faire on business issues and only lip-service libertarians on actual liberty issues, then their position on those things in the context of who they are is not very relevant to the discussion. Their money talks, how much "talking" have they actually done over these years for those causes?
User avatar
The Torsion
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 10406
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:47 pm
Location: It's Tyler Perry's world, I just live here.

The Torsion wrote:I mean, did he even give up any more details than what he's said the whole time? It sounded like a guy talking to a big name donor and politely going over the same talking points he would at a press conference. It sounded like a guy placating his crazy grandpa on his birthday.
I read the transcript. Playing the same set of dirty games that every jerkoff in public office is playing including the ones against him isn't exactly surprising. But ugh, Christ, I almost forgot what an arrogant asshole you are on here...I think the biggest difference between people like you and me (I'm sure you believe it's intelligence as well) is that the political intrigue isn't a game I'm interested in.

None of that ACORN crap was impressive either. Cheap tactics to mug for attention...
Haha,
User avatar
Chevalier Mal Fet
O.G. Interwebber
Posts: 4652
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:02 pm
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Contact:

The Torsion wrote: I read the transcript. Playing the same set of dirty games that every jerkoff in public office is playing including the ones against him isn't exactly surprising. But ugh, Christ, I almost forgot what an arrogant asshole you are on here...I think the biggest difference between people like you and me (I'm sure you believe it's intelligence as well) is that the political intrigue isn't a game I'm interested in.

None of that ACORN crap was impressive either. Cheap tactics to mug for attention...
Again, i call bullshit when I see it, your downplaying of the conversation as simply "talking points" was dramatically disingenuous.

And, ideally I would prefer a world where problems were worked out honestly, in good faith, pragmatically, with no biases, special interests, kumbaya, shangri-la, but that is not reality. Politics (in any system) is always a game of competing socio-economic interests, picking winners and losers, shouting the loudest and the longest, etc... as a libertarian that is practically an article of your faith, the intrigue is an essential part of that game and will always be with us. I believe in many causes but very few people/parties, it's less disappointing that way.
User avatar
The Torsion
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 10406
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:47 pm
Location: It's Tyler Perry's world, I just live here.

Chevalier Mal Fet wrote: Again, i call bullshit when I see it, your downplaying of the conversation as simply "talking points" was dramatically disingenuous.
Yeah, how much of what he said in that conversation came across as a big secret that he would only tell to his fucking Dark Lord of The Sith or whoever? This thing was supposed to be a smoking gun that David Koch was this guy's corporate overlord.
Chevalier Mal Fet wrote: And, ideally I would prefer a world where problems were worked out honestly, in good faith, pragmatically, with no biases, special interests, kumbaya, shangri-la, but that is not reality. Politics (in any system) is always a game of competing socio-economic interests, picking winners and losers, shouting the loudest and the longest, etc... as a libertarian that is practically an article of your faith, the intrigue is an essential part of that game and will always be with us. I believe in many causes but very few people/parties, it's less disappointing that way.
Article of my faith? Fuck off and don't make so many sweeping assumptions. You want to know why it's a fucking game and douchebag intrigue is constantly afoot? Centralized power and authority.
Haha,
User avatar
Chevalier Mal Fet
O.G. Interwebber
Posts: 4652
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:02 pm
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Contact:

The Torsion wrote:
Yeah, how much of what he said in that conversation came across as a big secret that he would only tell to his fucking Dark Lord of The Sith or whoever? This thing was supposed to be a smoking gun that David Koch was this guy's corporate overlord.
Again, that particular spin pre-existed the prank, the prank helped solidify that spin.
Article of my faith? Fuck off and don't make so many sweeping assumptions. You want to know why it's a fucking game and douchebag intrigue is constantly afoot? Centralized power and authority.
You can't get defensive about your faith and then start spouting off the Lord's Prayer of said faith in the same sentence. I would love to see a Libertarian "Survivor" where they drop 50 of your ideological compatriots onto an island or game preserve and see how long it takes for the maneuvering, manipulating, backstabbing and inevitably consolidation and centralization of power to begin. I give it maybe 3 hours.

This is Hobbesian human nature 101, and I'm the liberal here who's supposed to deny Hobbes premise. Law of the Jungle, state of nature... y'know, eat or be eaten, don't bring a knife to a nuke fight.
User avatar
father of lies
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 10421
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: MKE WI

Holy shit. I'm going to try to get to Madison on Friday or Sunday. Half a century of work undone in half an HOUR.
fvkk
User avatar
father of lies
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 10421
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: MKE WI

Shit.

Hey Molester, if you're still there on Sunday, say howdy. It looks like I might have to bus it there, but I'll be there at least until Monday, if it happens.
fvkk
User avatar
father of lies
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 10421
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: MKE WI

I guess I have to be back by Monday, for another rally at UWM. Walkout rally tomorrow at noon. I heard Alberta Darling's recall campaign got 1/4 of the necessary signatures in one weekend, and Walker's is over 100k out of 540k.
fvkk
User avatar
father of lies
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 10421
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: MKE WI

I only clicked once, Ross. I pwomise.
fvkk
John Jr.
Mac N Cheese ONLY.
Posts: 7755
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Anxious about Status

"FUCK YES MORE LAWS RIGHT NOW ALL THE TIME! LAW LAW LAW!" - Geeheeb
"OH I FORGOT, MORE JAILS TOO RIGHT NOW! FUCK YEAH JAIL JAIL JAIL!" - Geeheeb

"I don't recall quoting you as a shitbrain specifically... the shitbrain experience is not exactly the same for every shitbrain" -big rossman
User avatar
father of lies
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 10421
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: MKE WI

This is a good sign, right?

Image

Image

Can't wait for undercovers to start throwing rocks! Yeah!
fvkk
John Jr.
Mac N Cheese ONLY.
Posts: 7755
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Anxious about Status

did you bring a baggie containing a bandana soaked in apple vinegar for the tear gas?
"FUCK YES MORE LAWS RIGHT NOW ALL THE TIME! LAW LAW LAW!" - Geeheeb
"OH I FORGOT, MORE JAILS TOO RIGHT NOW! FUCK YEAH JAIL JAIL JAIL!" - Geeheeb

"I don't recall quoting you as a shitbrain specifically... the shitbrain experience is not exactly the same for every shitbrain" -big rossman
John Jr.
Mac N Cheese ONLY.
Posts: 7755
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Anxious about Status

yeah, about as subtle as election-stealing.

go find a closet to stay in, man. fuck them thugs.
"FUCK YES MORE LAWS RIGHT NOW ALL THE TIME! LAW LAW LAW!" - Geeheeb
"OH I FORGOT, MORE JAILS TOO RIGHT NOW! FUCK YEAH JAIL JAIL JAIL!" - Geeheeb

"I don't recall quoting you as a shitbrain specifically... the shitbrain experience is not exactly the same for every shitbrain" -big rossman
User avatar
father of lies
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 10421
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: MKE WI

I didn't take the pictures. I can't get there until Sunday.

When was the last riot specific to labor issues in this country?

Oh, by the by, last I heard the windows were still SEALED SHUT, so if shit goes down, it's going to REALLY go down. The leader of the fucking FIREFIGHTERS' union is calling for general strike.
fvkk
John Jr.
Mac N Cheese ONLY.
Posts: 7755
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Anxious about Status

i dunno. does the '99 battle in seattle count?
"FUCK YES MORE LAWS RIGHT NOW ALL THE TIME! LAW LAW LAW!" - Geeheeb
"OH I FORGOT, MORE JAILS TOO RIGHT NOW! FUCK YEAH JAIL JAIL JAIL!" - Geeheeb

"I don't recall quoting you as a shitbrain specifically... the shitbrain experience is not exactly the same for every shitbrain" -big rossman
User avatar
father of lies
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 10421
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: MKE WI

I'll give you a half point, but I'm not sure if that really counts. That's more of an imperialism and sovereignty thing, no?
fvkk
John Jr.
Mac N Cheese ONLY.
Posts: 7755
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Anxious about Status

when globalist corporations are doing their very best to insure that they can work together behind close doors to better screw you on prices and wages, i would call it somewhat of a labor issue. for instance: when your job moves to china via mexico thanks to WTO policies and you are having to compete with people on the other side of the world for your labor, i find that to be a labor issue.

but yes, certainly more complex than a mere labor issue.
"FUCK YES MORE LAWS RIGHT NOW ALL THE TIME! LAW LAW LAW!" - Geeheeb
"OH I FORGOT, MORE JAILS TOO RIGHT NOW! FUCK YEAH JAIL JAIL JAIL!" - Geeheeb

"I don't recall quoting you as a shitbrain specifically... the shitbrain experience is not exactly the same for every shitbrain" -big rossman
John Jr.
Mac N Cheese ONLY.
Posts: 7755
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Anxious about Status

dont forget your goggles and motorcycle helmet.
"FUCK YES MORE LAWS RIGHT NOW ALL THE TIME! LAW LAW LAW!" - Geeheeb
"OH I FORGOT, MORE JAILS TOO RIGHT NOW! FUCK YEAH JAIL JAIL JAIL!" - Geeheeb

"I don't recall quoting you as a shitbrain specifically... the shitbrain experience is not exactly the same for every shitbrain" -big rossman
User avatar
father of lies
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 10421
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: MKE WI

John Jr. wrote:when globalist corporations are doing their very best to insure that they can work together behind close doors to better screw you on prices and wages, i would call it somewhat of a labor issue. for instance: when your job moves to china via mexico thanks to WTO policies and you are having to compete with people on the other side of the world for your labor, i find that to be a labor issue.

but yes, certainly more complex than a mere labor issue.
I think the difference is that this is specifically American labor rights, not the overarching issue of the bad side of globalism and economic warfare etc etc.
fvkk
John Jr.
Mac N Cheese ONLY.
Posts: 7755
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Anxious about Status

haha, i'd be surprised if any of that actually went wide-band enough for anyone to know about it. if it didn't come on msnbc/foxnews, it never actually happened, right?
"FUCK YES MORE LAWS RIGHT NOW ALL THE TIME! LAW LAW LAW!" - Geeheeb
"OH I FORGOT, MORE JAILS TOO RIGHT NOW! FUCK YEAH JAIL JAIL JAIL!" - Geeheeb

"I don't recall quoting you as a shitbrain specifically... the shitbrain experience is not exactly the same for every shitbrain" -big rossman
User avatar
father of lies
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 10421
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: MKE WI

Haha what happened to Wisconsissippi?

I assume the riot gear is for the inevitable eruption of anger when that shit finally gets voted on (WHEN THE FUCK IS THAT HAPPENING UGH).
fvkk
John Jr.
Mac N Cheese ONLY.
Posts: 7755
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:22 pm
Location: Anxious about Status

i'm not trying to wave my "being oppressed" dick in any way whatsoever, but i really cannot fathom wisco being as shitty as the 'sip. however, having never been to wisconsin, i'm not really qualified to say that. that said, i really truly hope for your sake that it isn't that bad. pretty much everyone i've met from there is nice, down to earth, and rarely has much negative to say about the place, social conditions wise.
"FUCK YES MORE LAWS RIGHT NOW ALL THE TIME! LAW LAW LAW!" - Geeheeb
"OH I FORGOT, MORE JAILS TOO RIGHT NOW! FUCK YEAH JAIL JAIL JAIL!" - Geeheeb

"I don't recall quoting you as a shitbrain specifically... the shitbrain experience is not exactly the same for every shitbrain" -big rossman
User avatar
bundlesofvitals
OH LAWD!
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:37 am
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Contact:

Work (school) was weird today...a mix of sad and very angry people. Most are talking about heading to Madison on Saturday, and recall efforts. Without collective bargaining rights, our board (who is full of insane old dudes) can vote to cut salaries and benefits. I feel sick. I kinda feel like a sucker for getting my master's in education only to have it backfire...I probably should have just dropped out of college and became governor...
SPOILERSPOILER_SHOW

The WI Assembly speaker...
SPOILERSPOILER_SHOW

http://www.expressmilwaukee.com/article ... althy.html

Things have been in jeopary for a while...education funding has been getting cut for 18 years straight here and neither party has done anything about it. Meanwhile, operations are more expensive and we get less aid due to lower enrollment. Our district has eliminated positions every year, including all of our social workers and most of our specialists (music, art, etc.) and support staff. Totally effective way to invest in the future, right?

If anything, I hope this backfires politically and makes people more aware of what's going on. I'm going to drink this old beer I found in the back of the fridge now. :tup:
User avatar
father of lies
Sir Posts-A-Lot
Posts: 10421
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:17 pm
Location: MKE WI

Assuming all goes as planned, I want nothing to do with inner city Milwaukee a few years from now...
fvkk
Post Reply