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Jack Kerouac. On the Road was just a fucking rambling, run-on sentence. Yeah, it's his style. I don't like it.

Faulkner always sits badly with me too, I've given up after multiple attempts. Joyce's Ulysses is my literary kryptonite though. I know its supposed to be soooo amazing and I've started it like a hundred times but the dialect is just so thick that I get no enjoyment out of reading it, it takes me like 30 minutes to understand that a character said 'hello'. I throw it down in frustration usually 50 pages in. My high school self thought Toni Morrison was totally overrated, though perhaps my more mature self should give it another shot.

As for other people's responses, I'll match my Ani Difranco praise in the albums you love that others hate thread, with the fact that I love Jane Austen's books. Yes, my clit is pierced and I am baking cookies. I like Dickens but reading his works as complete is a little overwhelming for too little reward. Maybe they worked better in serial form.

I've been wanting to try some Joyce but from what I can gather he's nigh impenetrable. As for DiFranco, I actually think some of her writing is decent. But her actual "music"? Please fucking pour sulfuric acid on my eardrums first.

I want to read Ulysses SO BAD.

It's all the RAW. It gets in there.

father of lies wrote:I want to read Ulysses SO BAD.

It's all the RAW. It gets in there.

ding ding!

Ulysses is fantastic in certain sections. Finnegan's Wake is a nigh impregnable beast though.

I think this is the first time I've seen Lermontov mentioned on a message board. Of course I could do without Hero of Our Time, but I would rather give up Anna Karenina, which was overcooked junk.

Crime and Punishment deserves classic status, although you need to essentially meditate on the emotions as you go because it is such a slow burner.

Moby Dick I have never read from start to finish. It is like a thirty-two part miniseries with lots of brooding but no momentum.

I was pretty displeased to see Rabelais is still considered classic. Any Renaissance minds read him?

Catcher in the Rye: overrated, still great.

If you are familiar at all with western civilization the Bible can be a devastating read. Scumfucker is right; when you realize how many people have lived and died in the name of a story book it gets heavy. St. Paul was a very intense writer as well. Bible study is a great tool for catching sanctimonious idiots when they overstep. Plenty of great books in there. Ecclesiastes 9? You can't beat it!

right over there wrote:Bible study is a great tool for catching sanctimonious idiots when they overstep.

Logic and reason usually work fine for me. What's the deal with Ecclesiastes 9?

Bible thumpers do not respond to logic and reason so you have to "prove" they don't know what they are talking about with the only thing they do believe.

Ecclesiastes 9 takes me back twenty-two hundred years, to the middle of the desert, where it was becoming all too clear that sinner and saint were both just vanishing away. Reminds me of Augustine, one of my all time favorites.

right over there wrote:Bible thumpers do not respond to logic and reason so you have to "prove" they don't know what they are talking about with the only thing they do believe.

point taken. I've got my Bible contradictions bookmarked. Pissed my dad off something fierce once. "Oh, you carrying a bible with you now son?" "Yeah, let's talk dad."

The Great Gatsby
The Catcher in the Rye

hated both in HS. tried to revisit Great Gatsby last year and couldn't do it. so bad.

Faulkner's great.

right over there wrote:I think this is the first time I've seen Lermontov mentioned on a message board. Of course I could do without Hero of Our Time, but I would rather give up Anna Karenina, which was overcooked junk.

Crime and Punishment deserves classic status, although you need to essentially meditate on the emotions as you go because it is such a slow burner.

Moby Dick I have never read from start to finish. It is like a thirty-two part miniseries with lots of brooding but no momentum.

I was pretty displeased to see Rabelais is still considered classic. Any Renaissance minds read him?

Catcher in the Rye: overrated, still great.

If you are familiar at all with western civilization the Bible can be a devastating read. Scumfucker is right; when you realize how many people have lived and died in the name of a story book it gets heavy. St. Paul was a very intense writer as well. Bible study is a great tool for catching sanctimonious idiots when they overstep. Plenty of great books in there. Ecclesiastes 9? You can't beat it!

Rabelais is god to me.

the Hebrew Bible is amazing, but not if you just read it straight through. ideally, you should take a 1 semester college course to appreciate how rich and fascinating it really is. it's something that's difficult to do without guidance, but then again, what would you expect from a book that was composed and redacted over a period of several centuries?

MANTIS wrote:

hadji murad wrote: I want to read Ayn Rand to see what the fuss is about

From my understanding, the fuss is about a privileged, speed-addict bitch that convinced a generation of other privileged white people that everyone on planet earth has the same opportunities that they do and if they can't get their shit together, fuck them. I could understand this every-man-for-himself philosophy maybe if they were anarchists, but doesn't the existence of government contradict that philosophy? Regardless, anyone who uses the term "objective reality" with a straight face is capable of fucking anything.

That's what I gathered, but some folks I know whose opinions I respect seem to think she's good for something, so I didn't dismiss it offhand. Although when an author uses a novel to push his/her philosophy it starts to irritate me.

If you can't crack Ulysses, at least read Dubliners. It's not wacky like Ulysses. Finnegan's Wake was not meant for reading, the idea of it is far more interesting than the work itself.

hadji murad wrote:

MANTIS wrote:

hadji murad wrote: I want to read Ayn Rand to see what the fuss is about

From my understanding, the fuss is about a privileged, speed-addict bitch that convinced a generation of other privileged white people that everyone on planet earth has the same opportunities that they do and if they can't get their shit together, fuck them. I could understand this every-man-for-himself philosophy maybe if they were anarchists, but doesn't the existence of government contradict that philosophy? Regardless, anyone who uses the term "objective reality" with a straight face is capable of fucking anything.

That's what I gathered, but some folks I know whose opinions I respect seem to think she's good for something, so I didn't dismiss it offhand. Although when an author uses a novel to push his/her philosophy it starts to irritate me.

If you can't crack Ulysses, at least read Dubliners. It's not wacky like Ulysses. Finnegan's Wake was not meant for reading, the idea of it is far more interesting than the work itself.

I've heard that there are things to be gleaned from Rand's work even if you disagree but shit, I could say that about sunday morning service. Perhaps I'll give it a gander one of these days...
And despite what everyone says, I really want to try Finnegan's Wake

MANTIS wrote: ................Naked Lunch............... loses me in its neverending insanity.

That's kind of the point.

Mr. Budd wrote:

Phritz wrote:

Mr. Budd wrote:Move that sacred cow Tolstoy over that slotted floor because he needs a gutting. Why bother with Tolstoy when you have Lermontov and Dostoyevsky? He has been rendered superfluous by his superior pre and antecedents.

no no no
i've only read "resurrection" so far, but this one was awesome. i love his view on life, christianity and asceticism. although he overdid it in "kreutzer sonata". "resurrection" is pretty much the last book he wrote, so if you only know the older ones, i recommend trying that one.

the only book that i really hated was "dr. faustus" by thomas mann. i liked the story and wanted to finish it, but that guy writes like a bored, nerdy german teacher; nobel price or not.

also the newer books of peter handke. i can only handle a certain amount of landscape description...and he crossed the line.

OK - then I'll refrain from judgement until I've read more Tolstoy. Thanks for the warning on Dr. Faustus - it's been on my to read list for a while - seems like I've made a good choice in delay.

Anyone read the Tin Drum? I've head it called the German Petersburg.

More suggestions please - I have unrestrained appreciation of your opinion.

sorry, i haven't read anything by günther grass yet. i think i saw the movie once, but this was ages ago, so i don't remember a thing. but it's one of the classics of contemporary german literature.
there's so much more to read for me between appr. 1850 and the 1st world war and i love the literature of that time so much that i'm putting off everything else.

my favourite russian weirdo right now is Nikolaj Fedorov. he was a bibliophile eremit, ascetic and philosopher, who wanted to unite all humans under a common task: to fight death and to expand the anthroposphere through the whole universe.
i have a very good biography on him and his work and thoughts by michael hagemeister, but i doubt it's or will ever be available in english. if you ever come across a biography on him, i recommend reading it. fedorov's thoughts on death are very bleak and pure and free from all religious influence, most of the rest is just awesome socialist russian megalomania.

and the other one is the autobiography of george antheil, which i already mentioned in the classical music thread. a boasting american in paris of 1920. he met all the great ones: james joice, stravinsky, ezra pound... and they all were at his feet, of course.

electronicham wrote:That fucking book my dyke teacher during my sophomore year in high school that was about that black chick getting raped all the time for not doing the dishes.

Cinderella? THAT'S A CHILDRENS' CLASSIC, ASSHOLE.

SOHC 1971 wrote:

electronicham wrote:That fucking book my dyke teacher during my sophomore year in high school that was about that black chick getting raped all the time for not doing the dishes.

Cinderella? THAT'S A CHILDRENS' CLASSIC, ASSHOLE.

I LOLed.

Spectre Vs. Rector wrote:Neuromancer

you obviously dont understand black metal.

51[V][V]f0C wrote:

Spectre Vs. Rector wrote:Neuromancer

you obviously dont understand black metal.

anything written by chocolate faces

i don't see what the big deal about neuromancer is either. i got about 70 pages into it wondering when something was going to capture my interest before i stopped.

electronicham wrote:That fucking book my dyke teacher during my sophomore year in high school that was about that black chick getting raped all the time for not doing the dishes.

Sounds suspiciously like Maya Angelou. Is it "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings"?