THREAD TO TALK ABOUT CULTURE WAR BULLSHIT

[cxwx]

I don't think I'm the one who changed, mens.

A bunch of middle class to rich white guys got radicalized by their guilt to an ideology that appeals to their inner urge to reduce the world down to D&D stats. Be glad you weren't one of them.

Who the fuck that posts here is "rich" besides maybe Glub or Toilet Fleet? I don't even think Ross is making that big of dollars while working on recombinant weaponized monkey pox or whatever.

[Brutus Frank]

I don't think I'm the one who changed, mens.

A bunch of middle class to rich white guys got radicalized by their guilt to an ideology that appeals to their inner urge to reduce the world down to D&D stats. Be glad you weren't one of them.

Who the fuck that posts here is "rich" besides maybe Glub or Toilet Fleet? I don't even think Ross is making that big of dollars while working on recombinant weaponized monkey pox or whatever.

Oh I'm just going by Glubs word that it's not uncommon that folks here are buying quarter million dollar houses for cash.

But hey, no argument on that white part huh

[THE KILL]

I don't think I'm the one who changed, mens.

A bunch of middle class to rich white guys got radicalized by their guilt to an ideology that appeals to their inner urge to reduce the world down to D&D stats. Be glad you weren't one of them.

Are you being intentionally vague again so you can't be pinned down on the stupid shit you say? Do you ever have anything substantial to contribute?

[spacehamster]

Spacehamster, do you remember the Bum Wing interaction?

Vaguely. Why?

[Brutus Frank]

I don't think I'm the one who changed, mens.

A bunch of middle class to rich white guys got radicalized by their guilt to an ideology that appeals to their inner urge to reduce the world down to D&D stats. Be glad you weren't one of them.

Are you being intentionally vague again so you can't be pinned down on the stupid shit you say? Do you ever have anything substantial to contribute?

Can't imagine how I can be more clear with the sentiment expressed.

[Hunter]

I don't think I'm the one who changed, mens.

A bunch of middle class to rich white guys got radicalized by their guilt to an ideology that appeals to their inner urge to reduce the world down to D&D stats. Be glad you weren't one of them.

Who the fuck that posts here is "rich" besides maybe Glub or Toilet Fleet? I don't even think Ross is making that big of dollars while working on recombinant weaponized monkey pox or whatever.

Oh I'm just going by Glubs word that it's not uncommon that folks here are buying quarter million dollar houses for cash.

But hey, no argument on that white part huh

Hahaha, jesus christ man... towing the party line here? I thought you weren't a Republican!

"White guilt is driving people to hate America! They're teaching it in schools - that's why the youth hate America!"

It couldn't possibly be that people are being radicalized due to people going bankrupt or straight up dying from not being able to afford health care - they can't imagine ever being able to buy a home - and their future is a completely bleak climate hellscape. Shit, I've only had good health care for the past 5 years, and I count my lucky stars every time I need to use it. Do you think that in that 5 years I somehow got rich? I would have to have inherited a fortune, but my folks died a long time ago and had nothing to leave behind. Just because I don't live in poverty any longer doesn't mean I feel any kind of guilt about it - but I do vividly remember how it feels.

This white guilt bullshit is implicating "others" as a motivator, instead of the actual cause - the VERY OBVIOUS and WELL DOCUMENTED CLASS WAR. By regurgitating that nonsense, you are, in fact, UNWITTINGLY CARRYING WATER FOR FASCISTS.

And as far as "I'm not the one who changed" - uh, no shit? Seems like everyone else has grown up a bit over the past 15 YEARS+. Being a edgelord in 2005 is a lot different than being an edgelord in 2023. You sound like a comedian complaining that audiences are too PC now and they are being cancelled. Some shit just doesn't play like it used to... and who's fault is that? Society? Culture? There is nothing anyone can do to reverse that. Have you tried watching comedy specials from the 80s now? Should everyone still laugh at people mocking marginalized groups? I don't call people homophobic slurs like I did decades ago - even though I thought it was completely innocent. I've never been a homophobe, it was just a 'fun' word to say as a jab at people. But now, I realize that those words are what some people hear as they're beaten, dragged behind a truck, lynched, etc. I gained some perspective. Just because there's no actual malice behind me saying something does not mean that others MUST interpret it as innocent, and shouldn't be offended. Sure, there's something to be said for recognizing intent behind what people say, and I think people here, myself included, do that. But that doesn't mean everyone here finds it just as funny as they did years ago. People change.

[Eight Bit Alien]

I have a plan to save the board from civil war

[Toilet Fleet]

My extremely baseline expectation that people interrogate the stupid things they claim is GURPS

I'd expand on this but I'm far too busy assuaging my white (derogatory) wealth (slur) by doing an antifa

[Eight Bit Alien]

"Chaotic good half-kobold magic user" does sound very intersectional

[Toilet Fleet]

Boycotting our DM because my druid only got 2d4 silver pieces for delivering mithral ore to Elodun the Master Smith when everybody in the rangers' guild got 2d6

[Eight Bit Alien]

Prayers to Llolth are compelled speech and bluepilled modern men are ruining the underdark. Matron Malice 2016.

House Do'Urden will not replace us.
House Do'Urden will not replace us.
House Do'Urden will not replace us.

[spacehamster]

I don't call people homophobic slurs like I did decades ago - even though I thought it was completely innocent. I've never been a homophobe, it was just a 'fun' word to say as a jab at people.

I used to be kind of famous for calling everthing and everyone gay in various creative configurations (some of which I still think were kind of funny, if I'm honest), but I started to realize at some point that people just assumed I was a homophobe because of it. I may have gotten into an argument about this once or twice (you know, how dare you, of course I don't mean it that way, why do people always assume waah waah I have gay friends who totally agree that this is fine), and then I just figured, if there's a thing I'm doing that makes people think I'm homophobic and I don't want people to think I'm homophobic, maybe should just stop doing that thing. So I stopped, and it all went away. It's really not fucking complicated not to be an asshole.

[Eight Bit Alien]

Hunter - I really am very sorry if all this stuff has upset you. I've always thought you were extremely funny and intelligent. You obviously care very deeply for the wellbeing of others. It's something you reference in every comment, which is extremely rare in these sorts of conversations. I think a lot of people pretend to be the sort of guy you are. Your perspectives on all this stuff are well thought out, and skillfully expressed. I agree with your identification of many problems, but not with your proposed or inferred solutions.

I don't think this dialogue is going to come to any conclusion equal to the effort and stress you've invested so far. If that's partially my fault, I hope you can forgive me. I think it may simply be the nature of online arguments, though. That effort-reward mismatch is the reason I tend to express my own thoughts here in the way that I do.

One thing we've always done here is make fun of the people we disagree with. I think that that's okay. I never tried to engage with Chad, Torsan or Meatgrease in good faith, because it was obvious that they wouldn't have listened. A person won't reevaluate deeply held ideological convictions because of an internet arugment. Their ideas are fixed. I always took those conversations as an opportunity to say things that were amusing, at their expense. I don't think it was possible to meaningfully communicate with those guys, and so after expressing myself once or twice I would just switch over to silly stuff mode. Despite this, I really liked Torsan and Chad. I don't think the things I've witten here are any different, except that the roster of participants has shifted.

If a person were to view left-wing ideology as the objective truth of the world and right-wing ideology as a network of falsehoods per its deviation from this truth, obviously their perspective would be different. To me, things-in-themselves always have a very nebulous relationship with their corresponding interpretations inside political frameworks. Child sex trafficking is real, while adrenochrome harvesting obviously isn't.

I believe these soft articles of faith, when shared collectively, create a recurring situation where the solution to the problem (which is usually real) becomes entangled with the problem of the nonbelieving Other Side. A good example of this from outside merely political discourse would be the reformations and troubles in Ireland, where the problem of English imperial abuse became unsolvably intertwined with theological arguments, one camp Protestant and the other Catholic. From where I stand none of those economic and social issues actually had anything to do with saints or the eucharist, but for many participants those large-scale grand narratives are TRUTH and the solution was holy war. 4chan nazism is a silly example of one of these grand narratives, and so is Twitter communism.

When you can't communicate with someone about The Problem (economic slavery) without also affirming their Contingent Belief (magic cracker), they inevitably dismiss you as "one of them" and a second Problem develops. I think there are many examples of that in this thread, where people have repeatedly accused me of being "right wing" despite continued assurances to the contrary, and my long post history mocking guys like Meatgrease and Chad. Please understand that I'm not crying about this (I expect it), just using it as a readily-verified example.

I think that sinking into an ideological camp has more to do with group identity than any attempt to dispassionately pursue truth. My strong preference is to look at this stuff (team warfare, not The Problems) as an impartial observer and to pick apart flaws wherever I see them. I think the culture war is incredibly sad and will cost us much, much more than anyone presetly realizes. That doesn't mean it isn't a cornocopea of humor, and I don't think it's fair or honest to reserve territory as a no-go zone just because it's yours. I think QAnon (while tragic) is funny, and so is drag queen story hour. None of you are going to win anything here, and although I am now sorry for having ruffled some feathers I'm not wrong in encouraging a few of you to lighten up a bit. It won't hurt, and nobody is ultimately as connected to The Truth as they hope they are.

[Hunter]

I step away from my computer after checking the progress on my retirement plan when i black out.

I awaken to my fist yanking back at my receding and whispy hairline. My face is caked with babypowder. My other hand is pulling open the side of my mouth with the finest kitchen knife ever gifted by an in-law. My eyes are open wide, but it takes a moment to see... on the mirror, written in what smells like preparation-H:

"Why so serious???"

[Eight Bit Alien]

Gnome privilege hands typed that!!!

[spacehamster]

Jesus fucking Christ, James. Jesus fucking Christ.

[Toilet Fleet]

I don't call people homophobic slurs like I did decades ago - even though I thought it was completely innocent. I've never been a homophobe, it was just a 'fun' word to say as a jab at people.

I used to be kind of famous for calling everthing and everyone gay in various creative configurations (some of which I still think were kind of funny, if I'm honest), but I started to realize at some point that people just assumed I was a homophobe because of it. I may have gotten into an argument about this once or twice (you know, how dare you, of course I don't mean it that way, why do people always assume waah waah I have gay friends who totally agree that this is fine), and then I just figured, if there's a thing I'm doing that makes people think I'm homophobic and I don't want people to think I'm homophobic, maybe should just stop doing that thing. So I stopped, and it all went away. It's really not fucking complicated not to be an asshole.

Yeah but have you considered that politeness and propaganda start with the same letter (and also pedophilia, makes u think (and puberty blockers!))

[Hunter]

Hunter - I really am very sorry if all this stuff has upset you. I've always thought you were extremely funny and intelligent. You obviously care very deeply for the wellbeing of others. It's something you reference in every comment, which is extremely rare in these sorts of conversations. I think a lot of people pretend to be the sort of guy you are. Your perspectives on all this stuff are well thought out, and skillfully expressed. I agree with your identification of many problems, but not with your proposed or inferred solutions.

I don't think this dialogue is going to come to any conclusion equal to the effort and stress you've invested so far. If that's partially my fault, I hope you can forgive me. I think it may simply be the nature of online arguments, though. That effort-reward mismatch is the reason I tend to express my own thoughts here in the way that I do.

One thing we've always done here is make fun of the people we disagree with. I think that that's okay. I never tried to engage with Chad, Torsan or Meatgrease in good faith, because it was obvious that they wouldn't have listened. A person won't reevaluate deeply held ideological convictions because of an internet arugment. Their ideas are fixed. I always took those conversations as an opportunity to say things that were amusing, at their expense. I don't think it was possible to meaningfully communicate with those guys, and so after expressing myself once or twice I would just switch over to silly stuff mode. Despite this, I really liked Torsan and Chad. I don't think the things I've witten here are any different, except that the roster of participants has shifted.

If a person were to view left-wing ideology as the objective truth of the world and right-wing ideology as a network of falsehoods per its deviation from this truth, obviously their perspective would be different. To me, things-in-themselves always have a very nebulous relationship with their corresponding interpretations inside political frameworks. Child sex trafficking is real, while adrenochrome harvesting obviously isn't.

I believe these soft articles of faith, when shared collectively, create a recurring situation where the solution to the problem (which is usually real) becomes entangled with the problem of the nonbelieving Other Side. A good example of this from outside merely political discourse would be the reformations and troubles in Ireland, where the problem of English imperial abuse became unsolvably intertwined with theological arguments, one camp Protestant and the other Catholic. From where I stand none of those economic and social issues actually had anything to do with saints or the eucharist, but for many participants those large-scale grand narratives are TRUTH and the solution was holy war. 4chan nazism is a silly example of one of these grand narratives, and so is Twitter communism.

When you can't communicate with someone about The Problem (economic slavery) without also affirming their Contingent Belief (magic cracker), they inevitably dismiss you as "one of them" and a second Problem develops. I think there are many examples of that in this thread, where people have repeatedly accused me of being "right wing" despite continued assurances to the contrary, and my long post history mocking guys like Meatgrease and Chad. Please understand that I'm not crying about this (I expect it), just using it as a readily-verified example.

I think that sinking into an ideological camp has more to do with group identity than any attempt to dispassionately pursue truth. My strong preference is to look at this stuff (team warfare, not The Problems) as an impartial observer and to pick apart flaws wherever I see them. I think the culture war is incredibly sad and will cost us much, much more than anyone presetly realizes. That doesn't mean it isn't a cornocopea of humor, and I don't think it's fair or honest to reserve territory as a no-go zone just because it's yours. I think QAnon (while tragic) is funny, and so is drag queen story hour. None of you are going to win anything here, and although I am now sorry for having ruffled some feathers I'm not wrong in encouraging a few of you to lighten up a bit. It won't hurt, and nobody is ultimately as connected to The Truth as they hope they are.

I appreciate you taking the time to offer your perspective from a serious standpoint. I think if you had taken a moment to be honest with others for just a moment in other examples, you'd get a lot less flack from everyone. It's being coy about where you stand - very rarely answering people honestly - that can set people off. Is that what you've always done? Maybe! Are some people less tolerant of it now after the past 8 years of discourse and propaganda from 4chan and white nationalist rebranding? I can only speak for myself, but I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

I do think you're a good person at heart, but it has been difficult for me to remember that when responses have been mocking the language I used, rather than the substance. It did start to feel a little personal, and I am sorry for that. Honestly, sometimes I'm just venting the frustration I feel - the anxiety about the future. I don't have the time right now to elaborate on the rest of your post, but again, I appreciate and respect that you've offered your perspective.

[Necrometer]

I have a plan to save the board from civil war

I always thought this thread was intended to incite said war

[Eight Bit Alien]

Im starting to like the idea of being the last, aging edgelord in a world full of more well-rounded people, kinda like a mix between the dark knight returns and I am Legend. In my head I need to barricade the windows at night to keep out the pc fuck zombies who want to infect me with the woke mind virus. I have two kitanas and a black trenchcoat, probably a Cradle of Filth shirt, and I defend myself like a skyrim yell by screaming passages from The God Delusion and 12 Rules for Life (and that contradiction doesn't occur to me) which i carry everywhere. I am 62 years old and I'm almost out of jnco jeans because they stopped making them many years ago. But they have to last me one more battle before my heart gives out while delivering the climactic blow to my enemy, Tipper Gore of the PMRC Republic of Feminist China.

Except in reality all I do is ruin family gatherings by telling rape jokes and trying to get my nephew to listen to ICP.

[Eight Bit Alien]

Jesus fucking Christ, James. Jesus fucking Christ.

Like I said I've always really liked you. You always participate in these threads. In 20 years, have you ever changed your mind about anything because of something someone said here?

[Eight Bit Alien]

I am Edgend

[Necrometer]

jameses

don't let your daughters

grow up

to be

juggalettes

[spacehamster]

You always participate in these threads. In 20 years, have you ever changed your mind about anything because of something someone said here?

Not in the way you mean where I got DESTROYED WITH FACTS AND LOGIC because someone said magic words and then I had to admit defeat, no. But nobody over the age of 17 with a functioning brain thinks that that's the purpose of debate and discussion. The point is either to find some common ground and arrive at a compromise, to understand where the other person is coming from even if you still disagree with them or to at least make them look bad in front of everyone else who is watching. You're avoiding all three of those with your "huh huh, opinions are gay, Beavis" shtick and somehow think that makes you superior because you parse all political discussion through identity and what camp someone aligns with.

Also, I did just talk about how I changed my mind about using homophobic slurs, and it did happen because of what people said to me about it, it just took a while. But it happened because I listened and people laid out the reasons why it's not a good idea clearly and then I went away and marinaded on it a bit and eventually came to the conclusion that I was wrong. That is, in fact, possible. It just doesn't play out like a fucking basketball game.

[cxwx]

I thought we were trying to steer this thread back to jokey joke land.

Remember when meatgrease said the antifa mind virus was so powerful in Seattle that angry fat girls and 90 pound vegan boys would beat me up for owning Anal Cunt records ( I'm probably embellishing).

I'm reading a novel by a fascist writer, I want to be purged.