USA like Rome? or the British Empire?

[caldwell.the.great]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/25/opini ... ef=opinion

I tend to think of the US as a pseduo-empire in decline. A country doesn't have to be imperialist in the traditional sense in order to be an empire, right? So, with a sagging economy, internal cultural strife (gay marriage, but also the divide between left and right, liberal and conservative, evolution and creationism), difficult wars on multiple fronts, and no strong leadership to be found, I wonder if the country is in danger of losing more than its world dominance. sometimes i dream about the entire country collapsing in on itself in some kind of weird civil war. is that sort of thing even possible anymore?

this guy doesn't think so, but the article isn't terribly convincing. curious as to what other more informed posters think.

[soiled depends]

sometimes i dream about the entire country collapsing in on itself

Me too...

[John Jr.]

how are we not imperial in the traditional sense? if you have a US military base, you are an economic colony.

rome, i think, is the better comparison. rome fell because it got so large as to cross the event horizon of effective communication time. in light of the development of instant communication and near instant transportation in the 20th century, the US finds itself with the exact same problem: it cant utilize or mobilize it's forces (militarily, economicaly, socialy, and otherwise) effectively to deal with the problems it percieves to face.

[ThE GodDamN BattletweeteR]

sometimes i dream about the entire country collapsing in on itself in some kind of weird civil war. is that sort of thing even possible anymore?

very possible.

[John Jr.]

the russians keep hoping for it

so if we break up, what states do you figure will go to canada, what states will go to mexico, and what states will be left?

i'm guessing nobody wants ohio....

[Zerohero]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/25/opini ... ef=opinion

I tend to think of the US as a pseduo-empire in decline. A country doesn't have to be imperialist in the traditional sense in order to be an empire, right? So, with a sagging economy, internal cultural strife (gay marriage, but also the divide between left and right, liberal and conservative, evolution and creationism), difficult wars on multiple fronts, and no strong leadership to be found, I wonder if the country is in danger of losing more than its world dominance. sometimes i dream about the entire country collapsing in on itself in some kind of weird civil war. is that sort of thing even possible anymore?

this guy doesn't think so, but the article isn't terribly convincing. curious as to what other more informed posters think.

Sure it's possible---why not? Things could easily get much worse and make this recession look like a picnic. Desperation breeds panic and violence.

Inject 30% unemployment, hyperinflation, and extend that over a period of a couple years and hell yes, could be civil wars. Of course those involved would have no idea who they are fighting or what direction they plan to take things. Far from impossible.

[caldwell.the.great]

Of course those involved would have no idea who they are fighting or what direction they plan to take things. Far from impossible.

Really good point. Who the hell do you fight in the next Civil War? will it be the poor against the rich? will it be industrialists against those who don't stand to prosper from their investments? The democrat/republican vs. the invading interests of the corporation? And what exactly could spur a lazy public into taking action? I like conspiracy theories, but I'm often skeptical about them. Yet, as time goes on, I become more and more convinced that our government is intentionally breeding a lazy and useless populace for the sake of easy domination (I'm being half-sarcastic). This neglect of political life, and the continued abuse of power by those in power, really scares me the more I think about it. And it's the kind of thing that could lead to collapse... but in what direction?

Hell, I wouldn't know who to fight. I wouldn't know which side was the right one to be on. It's not just black, white, and gray; it's black, white, and about a million shades of gray in between.

[John Jr.]

you're killing people. theres no right side for that, just the one you find yourself on.

i imagine, though, that i would be basically Status Quo vs. Disaffected People. if Status Quo cant maintain a reasonable quality of life for the Disaffected, the disaffected will probably start killing anyone in uniforms. see also: every long term military action we've found ourselves in from vietnam forewards.

and in a country as selfish as this one, it's not hard at all for people to begin feeling disaffected and anomic when the chips are down.

oh, and i'm sure Disaffected People will kill each other a lot in that situation, too.

[ThE GodDamN BattletweeteR]

Really good point. Who the hell do you fight in the next Civil War?

you kill the people who does not have your consent to rule you.

[ThE GodDamN BattletweeteR]

the russians keep hoping for it

so if we break up, what states do you figure will go to canada, what states will go to mexico, and what states will be left?

i'm guessing nobody wants ohio....

mexico can barely rule itself...it wont be able to take over a state. well...it may take over southern california by default but that is about it.

[John Jr.]

you kill the people who try to kill, rob, or imprison you, i would assume.

[John Jr.]

lets just hope it doesn't implode. if it does, though, i'm hoping for snow-crash.

sometimes, i think fiction has ruined me.

[Zerohero]

Really good point. Who the hell do you fight in the next Civil War?

you kill the people who does not have your consent to rule you.

But those people won't be sitting around in lawnchairs in Podunk county.

[John Jr.]

also, i figure that teacher and film-maker will both be handy skills if you're willing to consider a position as a local propagandist.

[Bored, Esq.]

I'm also hoping for a warm, comfortable apocalypse where I live in a giant black tower and have a rec room.

[John Jr.]

i think the trick is to convince the masters to believe the propaganda that YOU make, and then do your best to get "creative control" based upon a few basic concepts outlined by whatever movement you're working for. try working at a local warlord level, as goebbels-esque superiors in large parties can likely put a crimp in your style.

[ThE GodDamN BattletweeteR]

Really good point. Who the hell do you fight in the next Civil War?

you kill the people who does not have your consent to rule you.

But those people won't be sitting around in lawnchairs in Podunk county.

no...they wont.

[ThE GodDamN BattletweeteR]

also, i figure that teacher and film-maker will both be handy skills if you're willing to consider a position as a local propagandist.

Oh, I'd be fucking AWESOME at that. I suppose the ethical turmoil would tear me up inside but my new masters would probably give me women and swank digs so... so be it.

just be aware that journalist/local propagandist do get targeted and killed.

[John Jr.]

oh yeah, that's what happens to people of influence sometimes in a revolutionary atmosphere. that's why i would suggest co-opting your group of choice as early as possible. if you're not particularly violent, i hear blackmail is the way to go.

[mastoman]

nothing at all is going to happen unless all the television stations and fast food restaurants shut down.

[John Jr.]

a single well placed .22 will take out a satellite uplink dish, and fast food restaraunts keep about 2 days of product on hand.

[Deez Nutz]

We'll know in a few weeks.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/ ... _is_n.html

[43°29′28″N 83°23′49″W]

[Dr Yail Bloor]

Status Quo .

[Comrade Slinky]

the russians keep hoping for it

so if we break up, what states do you figure will go to canada, what states will go to mexico, and what states will be left?

i'm guessing nobody wants ohio....

mexico can barely rule itself...it wont be able to take over a state. well...it may take over southern california by default but that is about it.

Texas will be in the hands of the mexicans within a week. All you fat gun totting xasthur fans will be too scared of yer neighbours to do anything once the shit hits the fan.