Scion Rock Fest 2012 - Tampa

[canon.docre]

Why do we need Scion to do things for us?

Why does this matter for people who couldn't care less about a 'DIY ethic?'

I guess it doesn't matter for people that don't care about a 'DIY ethic.' They are the ones that can listen to shitty, souless bands at fucking lame corporate sponsored shows, and can exist in a different reality than me. I don't care if it matters to them or not. I don't think Scion should stop doing what they're doing. For instance, Magrudergrind sucks now because of how they sound, not because Scion put out an EP for them. The Neurosis car commercial hit home for me a bit last night, and I'm not even going to share that with people I know who love Neurosis because it could literally destroy over a decades worth of spiritual connection to their music for some people. No care? Seriously?

[Geeheeb]

yes its clear I have no idea about anything

[canon.docre]

What if Scion gave free food to those starving kids in Africa? Why do we need Scion to do things for us? It robs people of their charity ethic to provide food for those kids ... oh wait.

Do not be another Ross on this one, you should know better, you are a true anarchist punk. Go to the Scion show and do not buy a Scion.

Its "influence creep." At first they were just giving money to bands and saying "you don't even have to tell people we gave you money." And I was pretty much fine with that; I thought "hey, some executive at Scion likes metal and is just giving bands he likes free money." I think a lot of bands could probably be liberated to create better music if they had a bit more money to throw at a studio, put out a proper release, and go on the road. A lot of people complain that things aren't sustainable, people get burned out, and that's all true in some way, but 30+ years of extreme music, and I see 14 and 15 year old kids are still finding their way to underground shows and losing their fucking minds .. its sustainable, and we don't need Scion at all.

[TF@work]

I guess it doesn't matter for people that don't care about a 'DIY ethic.' They are the ones that can listen to shitty, souless bands at fucking lame corporate sponsored shows, and can exist in a different reality than me.

Hahaha I love dumb absolutist dichotomies more than anything

either you embrace the DIY ethic with every fiber of your being or else you listen to shitty, soulless bands

Get some soul, corporate-sponsored jazz festivals, and stop being so shitty

[canon.docre]

the only person who can rob you of your DIY ethic is yourself.

True nuff.

[canon.docre]

I guess it doesn't matter for people that don't care about a 'DIY ethic.' They are the ones that can listen to shitty, souless bands at fucking lame corporate sponsored shows, and can exist in a different reality than me.

Hahaha I love dumb absolutist dichotomies more than anything

either you embrace the DIY ethic with every fiber of your being or else you listen to shitty, soulless bands

Get some soul, corporate-sponsored jazz festivals, and stop being so shitty

In this business we call that a clue. The fact that a band takes a paycheck to make a car commercial in conjunction with their musical tour .. well I count that under "evidence a band may not have values that I feel are important to the artistic integrity of their musical output." It remains to be seen, though. Its possible that my bands might be on the next Scion commercial if we really stick with it. Maybe we'll get a lick of that silver spoon and I'll change my tune.

[Cryptoplasty]

Why do we need Scion to do things for us?

Why does this matter for people who couldn't care less about a 'DIY ethic?'

I guess it doesn't matter for people that don't care about a 'DIY ethic.' They are the ones that can listen to shitty, souless bands at fucking lame corporate sponsored shows, and can exist in a different reality than me.

So you're listening to bands based on an ethic, and no the music itself. That's fine if you want to do that, but don't expect others to feel the same way. None of these bands are changing their sound because they're playing a Scion event. In a non-ethical vacuum, if your favorite band decided to play a Scion show, would your opinion on them change musically?

[Maery]

I find the constant negativity to be detrimental to any sort of growth I desire as a person.

[canon.docre]

Why do we need Scion to do things for us?

Why does this matter for people who couldn't care less about a 'DIY ethic?'

I guess it doesn't matter for people that don't care about a 'DIY ethic.' They are the ones that can listen to shitty, souless bands at fucking lame corporate sponsored shows, and can exist in a different reality than me.

So you're listening to bands based on an ethic, and no the music itself. That's fine if you want to do that, but don't expect others to feel the same way. None of these bands are changing their sound because they're playing a Scion event. In a non-ethical vacuum, if your favorite band decided to play a Scion show, would your opinion on them change musically?

No, but music is much more to me than sound. I still like Enslaved, and that Scion release they put out. An anarchist hypocrite! Stop the presses.

[TF@work]

In this business we call that a clue. The fact that a band takes a paycheck to make a car commercial in conjunction with their musical tour .. well I count that under "evidence a band may not have values that I feel are important to the artistic integrity of their musical output." It remains to be seen, though. Its possible that my bands might be on the next Scion commercial if we really stick with it. Maybe we'll get a lick of that silver spoon and I'll change my tune.

This whole idea that artistic validity is somehow innately tied to a question of economic ethos is simply

It's easy to the point of coloring books to dismiss all corporate-sponsored output as "product" but is that an honest appraisal of the work itself?

and I think that's where a lot of these discussions quickly lose any sense of scope or reason

[canon.docre]

In this business we call that a clue. The fact that a band takes a paycheck to make a car commercial in conjunction with their musical tour .. well I count that under "evidence a band may not have values that I feel are important to the artistic integrity of their musical output." It remains to be seen, though. Its possible that my bands might be on the next Scion commercial if we really stick with it. Maybe we'll get a lick of that silver spoon and I'll change my tune.

This whole idea that artistic validity is somehow innately tied to a question of economic ethos is simply

It's easy to the point of coloring books to dismiss all corporate-sponsored output as "product" but is that an honest appraisal of the work itself?

and I think that's where a lot of these discussions quickly lose any sense of scope or reason

Like I said, its just evidence for me to consider. You might feel the opposite, that any band that refuses corporate sponsorship based purely on their ethics are obtuse hippies and probably use said ethics as a crutch to write mediocre music.

[Thrashmaster Flash]

In most of these instances, these were tours that wouldn't have happened in FL if Scion didn't bring them here.

This is one of he main things I have a problem with. Why do we need Scion to do things for us? It robs people of their DIY ethic to bring shows to their towns, or release records. This is part of what forges good music, is the cooperation, effort and achievement of individuals and collectives that CREATED this music scene. It is disturbing to me, on the primal level that I enjoy music, that bands are willing to allow a CAR COMPANY to PURCHASE space in MY CONSCIOUSNESS.

I definitely get this, and my point was more of an afterthought than an argument. The fact is that Florida has a garbage scene for nearly all forms of music, and due to the sheer logistical difficulty of bringing a tour down a huge fucking peninsula only to be greeted by crowds of dozens, we simply don't get any tours.

I'm all for DIY promotion, probably more so than the average person. I've set up or played a large role in the vast majority of shows that I've ever performed in, and even as a DJ and producer I've always been extremely DIY. I've spent YEARS putting on shows that I booked, organized, did flyer artwork for, promoted online, etc. I built up a dead Wednesday night at a local dive bar into the largest underground DJ/dance night in the city over the course of two years, at a time before DJs in bars were annoyingly ubiquitous here. I'm really proud of the work I've done in my city for underground electronic music, as stupid as that may sound to most here. But I've also played Scion events and they've been good opportunities. For example, I had the opportunity to DJ directly after fucking A-TRAK, who is currently playing to crowds in the high 5-figures all across the world, and I simply wouldn't have been able to do that on my own. I don't even remember if how much I got paid for that show—I did it for the experience. Scion doesn't own any part of my consciousness.

I'm not saying that I owe anything to Scion for bringing shows here, but I can confidently say that if they didn't, there wouldn't be anyone else around here that would. No pro-Scion argument there, just the facts.

[MeatGrease]

yes its clear I have no idea about anything

you don't...

[MeatGrease]

And of course the gutgurgler chimes in...defending the integrity of his "art"...shitting into a toilet and recording it

You aren't fit to make a pound of spaghetti with shitty rancid tomato "sauce"

are you saying that I can't or that I shouldn't...always about the food with this fat shit...anything to get the taste of little boy cock out of his mouth...

[MeatGrease]

Correct.

Ryan, I have told you in person that MeatGrease is an actual kid. People you have met in person have met him, not that it matters much.

[a world of no]

shut up, chris. people aren't responding to you simply because you don't matter, attention whore.

[MeatGrease]

shut up, chris. people aren't responding to you simply because you don't matter, attention whore.

steve you are getting on my last nerve...you are crusin' for a brusin' that your ass can't cash

[Geeheeb]

Sometimes feeding the trolls can be lots of fun but you've worn out your welcome.

[canon.docre]

Geeb

[Geeheeb]

canon

[doubleblumpkin]

Geeb

canon

[MeatGrease]

Sometimes feeding the trolls can be lots of fun but you've worn out your welcome.

What's that supposed to mean...and I'm not a troll

[Geeheeb]

NP: Larm - No One Can Be That Dumb

[MeatGrease]

Is that how one responds to having their life philosophy torn to shreds? I guess so...

[delmuerte]

You really thought that was me? Dang.

It's true, I bought a Scion. I'm not even the only person on this board that has the same MODEL Scion that I got, but ANYWAY, it didn't have much to do with the shows. It had a lot to do with being a pretty well-reviewed car with an awesome stock sound system that was under $20k. Also the fact that I can pay it off pretty quickly, fix my credit and then blow my money on whatever other car I wanna get in a couple years helps.

As far as I can tell about all the hubbub on the issue, though, it seems like people just feel like YOU MUST SUFFER to be able to write good music. To some degree, I agree with that. I definitely write much better music (if you can call it that) when I'm pissed off about something but seriously, I don't see how any of the bands that have released stuff on the Scion label or who have played Scion shows have changed at all. They're not in jingles (as far as I know, anyway), and it's not like a Magrudergrind CD will suddenly wake passive car consumers from their trance-like daze and turn them into phony grindcore addicts, with ONLY THE ORIGINAL LOGO patches on their Dockers.

I just can't see what the problem is with metal and punk artists finally getting a tiny amount of money in their pockets for playing a show. People who think that getting money (whether it is from a guarantee or from a promoter or a car company) is antithetical to underground music are brainwashed idiots. I remember being harangued for Phobia having a guarantee ($200) at a show that Geeheeb (correct me if I'm wrong) just happened to put on, with some kid telling us we were whatever the Michigander crusty equivalent of a sellout is. Seriously, it's a privilege for a band to haul their ass halfway across the country to play for you, not a right. So fuck you if you think that any artist has no right to get money from whatever source they can, especially if the source isn't asking for anything in return.

downfall of the scion wordfilter = leon's hardly hidden hand