Fuck It. Joe Rogan Podcast Thread

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

If male to female trans lose aggression, why is she choosing to fight after completing her transition ?

By that logic, why do cis women fight at all when lacking male-level testosterone? Because male-level testosterone isn't required to train to be a fighter.

[riley-o]

No, born-women might naturally have higher aggression levels.

I'm saying, if aggression level drops, why wasn't she fighting when she was male ? She transitioned as an adult and started her fighting career as a woman. That's not indicitive of a person who has lost aggression.

[valgalder]

did she start training altogether after becoming a woman though, or when she was a man too? I'm not clear on that..

[the awesome Assassin]

did she start training altogether after becoming a woman though, or when she was a man too? I'm not clear on that..

It's a he no matter what...

[riley-o]

That hasn't come out but either way it looks bad.

The more i think about this the more i'm against it.

[Gay for Cock]

So Mari is pulling a Thrashmaster Flash when the word transgender is dropped in a thread around here?

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

No, born-women might naturally have higher aggression levels.

I'm saying, if aggression level drops, why wasn't she fighting when she was male ? She transitioned as an adult and started her fighting career as a woman. That's not indicitive of a person who has lost aggression.

I'm not sure I understand your point. Can you put it as a statement, instead of asking me a question about her motivations to fight, which I have no way of knowing?

All I'm saying is that testosterone is one of the big factors that make people aggressive. And that HRT and combined SRS lowers testosterone to woman-levels, indicating that she wouldn't be enjoying a benefit of increased aggression because of high testosterone levels.

I can't understand if your point is to suggest that imprinting is a much bigger factor in aggression than current testosterone level, or if you're accusing her of transitioning and only wanting to fight because she thinks she has an advantage in the ring having been born as she was?

[riley-o]

Well maybe get away from the idea that I'm asking you specifically a question for starters. You chose to answer my original question but I'm not asking you. I'm saying that's an unanswered and important question and until that's answered I wouldn't be comfortable with her fighting born-women, and more importantly a number of female fighters aren't comfortable with it.

My point is, if a person didn't want to fight as a male, and then their testosterone drops and subsequently their aggression levels, it doesn't make sense in my caveman brain that she now wants to fight people. I'm looking for an explanation for that; why didn't this person want to fight as a man but does want to as a woman ? Again, that's a general question but it's one that needs a valid answer if she's going to be fighting people who were born women.

[Mari_Mar]

I just wish Riley would stop using the term "born-women." Women-Born-Women was a term started by 2nd Wave feminists, and now adopted by Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists as a means to malign and discriminate against trans women.

The terms cis gender woman, or cis woman are neutral terms that accurately describe the situation. No matter how much the TERFs might have you believe otherwise...

[riley-o]

It's relevant to the issue. I'm not saying it to be insulting, but I don't even know what cis means.

[Mari_Mar]

It's relevant to the issue. I'm not saying it to be insulting, but I don't even know what cis means.

Cis means "on the same side as." It's the opposite prefix to Trans which means "to cross over."

[riley-o]

Is "women-born-women" inaccurate somehow ?

[Mari_Mar]

Is "women-born-women" inaccurate somehow ?

Yes. It excludes trans women, by implying that their identities aren't valid, and the only requirement to being a woman sex assigned at birth. It's also inaccurate because no one is born a woman, just like no one is born a man. We're born as babies, and grow into women and men...

[the awesome Assassin]

Christ...

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

Well maybe get away from the idea that I'm asking you specifically a question for starters. You chose to answer my original question but I'm not asking you. I'm saying that's an unanswered and important question and until that's answered I wouldn't be comfortable with her fighting born-women, and more importantly a number of female fighters aren't comfortable with it.

My point is, if a person didn't want to fight as a male, and then their testosterone drops and subsequently their aggression levels, it doesn't make sense in my caveman brain that she now wants to fight people. I'm looking for an explanation for that; why didn't this person want to fight as a man but does want to as a woman ? Again, that's a general question but it's one that needs a valid answer if she's going to be fighting people who were born women.

Hmm, I don't care about her motivation to fight or when it happened. I guess I don't see the point? That's why I hoped you'd make an assertion so I understood why it was important for you to know. I wasn't trying to be evasive. I just don't see it as relevant to the "does she have an unfair advantage or pose a danger" question. Maybe it is? And I don't see it? Help? What is the imagined answer that would set your mind at ease? What would be unacceptable?

Look at it this way, some women grow up going to proms and being pretty princesses and marry and have a kid and then one day they start to get into fighting and train for it and end up being fighters. I'm not an expert on the Story of Riley and I don't know how old you are, but you went for a long time in your life not training to be a fighter, and then one day you did. Just like I didn't know jack shit about my own hobbies, until I was aware of them, and then there was a time before I actually got the courage to start doing them.

Maybe Fox always wanted to fight but it was the transition that made her feel like she could step up and do something in her life, that the courage to do that inspired her to follow her dreams to be a fighter? Or maybe she transitioned and only after started watching MMA and thought, holy shit that looks amazing, maybe I'll go take a BJJ class and do some jazzercise, and it went from there?

I don't see any fighters questioning her motivation or when it happened. Are they? Maybe I haven't seen it.

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

Is "women-born-women" inaccurate somehow ?

Yes. It excludes trans women, by implying that their identities aren't valid, and the only requirement to being a woman sex assigned at birth. It's also inaccurate because no one is born a woman, just like no one is born a man. We're born as babies, and grow into women and men...

Jesus, Riley wasn't trying to insult you. Expecting people to know the jargon-wars is unrealistic.

[the awesome Assassin]

What age do we know what sex we are...

[Mari_Mar]

Is "women-born-women" inaccurate somehow ?

Yes. It excludes trans women, by implying that their identities aren't valid, and the only requirement to being a woman sex assigned at birth. It's also inaccurate because no one is born a woman, just like no one is born a man. We're born as babies, and grow into women and men...

Jesus, Riley wasn't trying to insult you. Expecting people to know the jargon-wars is unrealistic.

I know! But, that doesn't mean that I don't find it entertaining to point out...

[Mari_Mar]

What age do we know what sex we are...

Medical experts believe that we know our genders between the ages of 2 and 4.

[the awesome Assassin]

What age do we know what sex we are...

Medical experts believe that we know our genders between the ages of 2 and 4.

Mitch Jr., turns four next month... If I sign him up for soccer what league do I choose... boys? girls? ( ) or start a protest cause he/she hasn't grown to know...

[Mari_Mar]

What age do we know what sex we are...

Medical experts believe that we know our genders between the ages of 2 and 4.

Is there a way to describe the physical gender we're born with that is not offensive?

Use "cis gender" as a prefix...

[Mari_Mar]

What age do we know what sex we are...

Medical experts believe that we know our genders between the ages of 2 and 4.

Mitch Jr., turns four next month... If I sign him up for soccer what league do I choose... boys? girls? ( ) or start a protest cause he/she hasn't grown to know...

It figures that you wouldn't know how to communicate with your child.

[the awesome Assassin]

So cis is basically ska music...

[the awesome Assassin]

It figures that you wouldn't know how to communicate with your child.

Hey homo, I hate soccer but he loves it...

[Mari_Mar]

OK. So "born physically male" is offensive as compared to "cis gender male"?