Fuck It. Joe Rogan Podcast Thread

[valgalder]

so people that don't know trans-gender folks all supposed to know all the PC terms? I'm still confused at what i'm supposed to say, and i'm actually trying to be respectful.

[Necrometer]

so when you say "cis gender" the cis means same, right? same as what?

I think the answer is SEX

but I don't know why Mari is trying to avoid that word since it's helpful

I understand it as

sex --> biology

gender --> culture

[Mari_Mar]

so when you say "cis gender" the cis means same, right? same as what?

[Necrometer]

see edit

[elephants gerald]

yeah I was about to post the same thing, basically.

'cis' suggests that there are two components that are similarly oriented- here 'sex (at birth)' and 'gender.' saying 'cis gender' seems incoherent to me

[Mari_Mar]

yeah I was about to post the same thing, basically.

'cis' suggests that there are two components that are similarly oriented- here 'sex (at birth)' and 'gender.' saying 'cis gender' seems incoherent to me

So, is the term "transgender" equally incoherent?

[elephants gerald]

no no, 'cis gender' isn't even really incoherent. I was unclear.

geoff asked you how to talk about the gender we're physically born with, you said 'cis gender.' he didn't ask what the term is for someone whose biological sex and whose gender are aligned. to say that you identify as a female but that your 'cis gender' is male is what doesn't make sense.

[Mari_Mar]

no no, 'cis gender' isn't even really incoherent. I was unclear.

geoff asked you how to talk about the gender we're physically born with, you said 'cis gender.' he didn't ask what the term is for someone whose biological sex and whose gender are aligned. to say that you identify as a female but that your 'cis gender' is male is what doesn't make sense.

Oh, I see. I misread Geoff's question.

"Male assigned at birth" would be the politically correct answer in that case.

[riley-o]

Who fucking cares about the right term at this point ? Can we take it for granted at this point after this many years that I'm trying to engage the discussion in an open and honest manner and actually express my point without insulting people or fucking keep down the underclass or whatever ? The minute it becomes "well you used the wrong term and we can't actually talk about anything until you use the right term" you suck all the wind out of what could be a mutually enlightening conversation and we go into a semantics debate which is to say basically insist that everyone keep sticking to their originally held conceptions with no openness to change.

I'm genuinely trying to understand, express and relate and have felt that from others as well, but can't help but feel I'm being lectured to from you, Marissa. I understand you have a vested interest in all things trans but you should try to understand that I also have an emotional commitment to all things relating to fighting. So we both have our area of expertise here and maybe it would be nice if instead of playing the role of educator you instead try and have a conversation without the agendas.

[Mari_Mar]

Cool. Now what's the difference between "male assigned at birth" and "born physically male" which was initially cited as offensive?

Again, I misread your context...

[Gay for Cock]

Would now be an inappropriate time to ask who Joe Rogan is?

[Gay for Cock]

Or would it be cis Joe Rogan?

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

Who fucking cares about the right term at this point ? Can we take it for granted at this point after this many years that I'm trying to engage the discussion in an open and honest manner and actually express my point without insulting people or fucking keep down the underclass or whatever ? The minute it becomes "well you used the wrong term and we can't actually talk about anything until you use the right term" you suck all the wind out of what could be a mutually enlightening conversation and we go into a semantics debate which is to say basically insist that everyone keep sticking to their originally held conceptions with no openness to change.

I'm genuinely trying to understand, express and relate and have felt that from others as well, but can't help but feel I'm being lectured to from you, Marissa. I understand you have a vested interest in all things trans but you should try to understand that I also have an emotional commitment to all things relating to fighting. So we both have our area of expertise here and maybe it would be nice if instead of playing the role of educator you instead try and have a conversation without the agendas.

Well, I was trying to figure stuff out with you. If you have a moment, maybe respond to my last post about the motivation aspect?

[Mari_Mar]

So in terms of talking about a cis gender male (if I'm using that term ok) you personally wouldn't be offended by the term "born physically male"?

No. That would be completely accurate. (if you're using the term correctly.)

[Scumfucker]

Cis is pronounced how out loud? Like sis? Like kiss? Or you just say crossover?

[elephants gerald]

sis

[the awesome Assassin]

sis sis, or sumpthing...

[riley-o]

This is one of her fights.

Call me insensitive or a Jofa or transphobic or whatever you like, but this sure looks an awful lot like a man beating up a woman.

[Scumfucker]

I don't think that's anything close to a fair fight.

[Kurt Russell's Beard]

This is one of her fights.

Call me insensitive or a Jofa or transphobic or whatever you like, but this sure looks an awful lot like a man beating up a woman.

Yeah, that's the one I saw. Totally dominant, not even a contest. The only other woman fighter I've seen that looks that powerful is Cyborg, and she's currently suspended for steroids. Cyborg to me looks like a man beating up a woman.

Is there a way to measure Fox's muscle mass, strength, bone density, etc.? If she's closer to a male performance than a female performance, this isn't going to work at all.

EDIT: They need to pit Fox against a good fighter. I couldn't tell if that opponent was just a beginner or was made to look like a beginner because Fox was so dominant.

[elephants gerald]

I think it's clear that the e-z cis/trans gender model isn't sufficient for our purposes and that if we're going to catalog gender with any thoroughness, we need to introduce an additional r-s naming convention. for the purposes of MMA fighting.

priorities would be as follows:

1. punch and kick newtons (avg)
2. bone density
3. approximate jaw size (in z'dars)

these are measured in standard deviations away from the women's mean, and then those standard deviation values are ordered numerically. if (high to low) the order comes in at 1, 2, 3 (where the fighter has perhaps demonstrated exceptional punching power, above average bone density, and a passably feminine jaw) the fighter is labeled 'R' and will compete with other men. '3, 1, 2' fighters also are granted the 'R' designation, as are '2, 3, 1' fighters. if it's determined that a fighter has a sky-high jaw value and an above average bone density score, but only average female punch and kick newtons, then that (3, 2, 1) fighter is labeled an 'S' and will compete with their fellow women. a '2, 1, 3' scoring (bones, newtons, z'dar) and a '1, 3, 2' will also lead to 'S' categorization and will open up the doors to future competition in women's mixed martial arts

[Scumfucker]

Wait a minute sir, if we are figuring jaw size, what of the Adams apple? Does it make it easier or harder to get choked out?

[Ray]

I haven't been able to keep up with this thread today, but has this been posted? I'll just leave this here.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/3/20/41 ... on-fox-has

[a world of no]

What age do we know what sex we are...

Medical experts believe that we know our genders between the ages of 2 and 4.

Seriously... anyone can say "medical experts believe ~" and spout any fucking semi-plausible bullshit they want and make retards believe the point you're trying to get across is valid. That's not to say this particular example of yours is invalid, but holy fuck... can you provide some documented proof for once? Your claims are fucking moot without evidence, which just keeps this bullshit discussion going on, and on, and on... until someone's ego gives them an orgasm.

oh hey!

I haven't been able to keep up with this thread today, but has this been posted? I'll just leave this here.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/3/20/41 ... on-fox-has

Gender is more of an identity. It's how you identify yourself. Sex is multi-layered.

1. Chromosomally, what you are

2. Hormonally, what you are

3. Gender, how you're identifying yourself

It's actually very complicated, and I believe that the Olympics actually takes these on a case by case basis. In this particular instance, Fox might potentially have an unfair advantage over the females she faces, because she developed all the way into adulthood as a male. There would be increased musculature, and an increased ability to build muscle, so an advantage might be present due to years of conditioning and becoming more masculine, which includes differences in endurance and strength. The male body develops differently, both in skeletal structure and muscularly.

When pitted against an average female, I would say that there were probably some advantages that the hormonal blockade and subsequent replacement can't take away 100%, simply because she lived so much of her life as a male, and developed fully as such.

And I believe this leans in favor of one of Riley's earlier arguments?

Something that also has to be considered is called imprinting of the brain. Male imprinting happens with testosterone during development. If no testosterone is present, you tend to have a female brain. Developing fetuses that have testosterone have male imprinting of the brain, and it does not go away after androgen suppression and sex change surgery. It is a permanent imprint on the brain.

Someone that has had male imprinting could have the potential for more aggression or more aggressive type behavior than a female brain. That's something that could affect her and possibly give her a mental edge in how she fights and how aggressive she might be, compared to a biologically born female.

[Ray]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... jEUd0#t=6s