Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

Post by Geeheeb »

Mass effect in medicine are the problems caused by the mass of something (like a hematoma or tumor) in the body, ie. a brain tumor compressing neurons, nerves, or blood vessels and causing "effect" due to its "mass".

There was a shooting at Michigan State this week and mom was there teaching piano at the time. First shooting was at 20:18 and she called us at 20:30 asking if we knew what was going on because there were lots of ambulances and police everywhere. Just then Nixle text alerts came in (we subscribe because of our jobs) about the active shooter. She had just started driving away and escaped the campus wide lockdown by a few minutes. She called later on her way home to let us know that she was home safe and that she saw police from suburban Detroit speeding past, which is at least 90 miles away. She was very rattled and hasn't really been able to sleep since then.

Another family friend was coaching on campus at the time, at one of the buildings were there were false reports of shootings.

The hospital I work at is right next to campus, but is not the level 1 trauma center for the region - so all the gun shot wound (GSW) patients go to Sparrow, which is actually just a few blocks from my house. We heard sirens coming from all directions, and helicopters over our heads until about the time that the shooter was reported to be found dead. So even if we wanted to sleep, we could not have.

Neighborhood Facebook and Nextdoor were on fire with misinformation, most of it coming from the police scanner website: multiple shooters, shooter hiding in woods right next to my neighborhood, bombs or explosive devices, other reports of shots fired.

I have a spinal injury that I don't post about, but I am not able to lift so I can't really take care of patients - I didn't get ready to go to work, but a TON of my coworkers showed up including the C-suite. Even though no GSW patients showed up we did have lots of anxiety and other patients, and few were ready to work the next day so that shift really suffered too. A week before we had a hoax active shooter call to the closest high school (Okemos), and that primed people in different ways. Many people responded to the hoax by getting ready, and that did help some people shake off the cobwebs for the trauma / code triage workflows that we follow (though we see several level 1 traumas per week), but other people thought it was another hoax which leads to some dissonance among staff.

Medical staff are all so burned out right now, so even this event were we didn't even see a single patient really takes a toll on us as an institution. Sad. Conversations about mass shootings and prevention are also pretty weird here because, just like a lot of places, there is a wide spectrum of beliefs.

Just wondering if anyone else has had a personal brush with a mass shooting here, and you want to post about it - chances are I am not alone.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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Me and my boss almost got shot by jumpy cops leaving work at 4am because they thought we were burglars, not sure if that counts.

He was yelling for us to put our hands up and had his hand on the butt of his gun. I had my hands up the whole time but my boss kept nervously reaching for a cup of coffee.

The cop took my bosses keys to open the door and I thought we were going to be arrested after all because the key sticks in the lock and you have to jiggle it a bunch of times but thank god it actually opened easily when the cop went inside the place. Apparently there has been some major robbery in the area, they had blocked us in with about five cars, they weren’t fucking around.

Weird thing is I was totally relaxed at the time and never felt traumatized even though there was a good chance we could have been yanked out of the truck and tossed around or worse because of that damn cup of coffee and sticky key. I’ve had far worse things happen to me.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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I'm glad you and your family are safe, Kevin! That sounds terrifying, especially considering your work.

I've had cops draw their guns on me once, but I haven't had any brushes with mass shooting events, thankfully. I enjoy shooting Trap/Skeet (haven't done it in decades though) and wouldn't advocate for a complete gun ban, personally. I think there absolutely should be a multi-step process for purchasing weapons, with different tiers of scrutiny for each weapon type. You wouldn't have the same process for a shotgun that you would for an AR-15. I'd be fine with an assault weapon ban too - like there was in the 90s.

What I'd like to see happen:
- Gun safety course requirements, similar to mandatory driving safety courses
- Thorough background checks / Psych evaluations
- Licensing and registration for every weapon

But as long as there's NRA money being thrown around, nothing will change.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

Post by Necrophilic Mallard »

Pro magazine capacity limits.
Anti "assault weapon" ban.
Pro mandatory training

Pro legalized prostitution
2 birds with 1 stone: less human trafficking, incels can get laid

Pro preventing loons/incels from accessing social media and guns and porn*
*Only if prostitution is legal

Have no idea how to enforce any of that last one
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

Post by the awesome Assassin »

If they made your hospital a Level 1 it would cut down on travel time for the next one...
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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Necrophilic Mallard wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:16 pm Pro magazine capacity limits.
Magazine capacity limits are among the dumbest shit ever conceived by human brains.

Anyway, my story is that during basically the only mass shooting in Swiss history back in 2001, I was working on the phone at directory inquiries, and we got a lot of calls from radio DJs with the guy's name trying to find out his address. Looking back now, I think it's kind of hilarious that that was their method of research.

Also, we didn't do diddly-squat to our gun regulation in response, and we haven't had a mass shooting since. Because what causes violence is social inequality, and we have a very well functioning social safety net and thus basically no violent crime despite being in the top 5 most armed countries in the world. Being pro gun control is basically the left-wing equivalent of "triggering the libs". It won't do shit, but you want to stick it to them gun-loving conservatards.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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spacehamster wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:32 pm
we have a very well functioning social safety net and thus basically no violent crime despite being in the top 5 most armed countries in the world.
This right here is the real crux of the matter. Although I would agree in that in my country some kind of material limit on physical access to weaponry would make a difference considering how much more heavily armed and violent our society is than in Switzerland as there is virtually no chance of any kind of meaningful expansion of a social safety net here. At least not without some kind of massive culture shift. Social programs are one of the most heavily demonized things in the United States.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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spacehamster wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:32 pm
Necrophilic Mallard wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:16 pm Pro magazine capacity limits.
Magazine capacity limits are among the dumbest shit ever conceived by human brains.

Anyway, my story is that during basically the only mass shooting in Swiss history back in 2001, I was working on the phone at directory inquiries, and we got a lot of calls from radio DJs with the guy's name trying to find out his address. Looking back now, I think it's kind of hilarious that that was their method of research.

Also, we didn't do diddly-squat to our gun regulation in response, and we haven't had a mass shooting since. Because what causes violence is social inequality, and we have a very well functioning social safety net and thus basically no violent crime despite being in the top 5 most armed countries in the world. Being pro gun control is basically the left-wing equivalent of "triggering the libs". It won't do shit, but you want to stick it to them gun-loving conservatards.
Estimated number of guns owned per 100 people, by country:

1. United States - 120.5
2. Falkland Islands - 62.1
3. Yemen - 52.8
4. New Caledonia - 42.5
5. Serbia - 39.1
...
19. Switzerland - 27.6
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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cxwx wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:13 pm
spacehamster wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:32 pm
we have a very well functioning social safety net and thus basically no violent crime despite being in the top 5 most armed countries in the world.
This right here is the real crux of the matter. Although I would agree in that in my country some kind of material limit on physical access to weaponry would make a difference considering how much more heavily armed and violent our society is than in Switzerland as there is virtually no chance of any kind of meaningful expansion of a social safety net here. At least not without some kind of massive culture shift. Social programs are one of the most heavily demonized things in the United States.
Social programs have been relabeled as "entitlements" and people who use them are "lazy" or "welfare queens." They're always on the table for being cut, along with education and healthcare.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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I haven't been anywhere near a mass shooting but the Buffalo one was close enough. I got about a million calls that day (I was at work at the time). It was overshadowed in the news by the Uvalde shooting a week later but it's still a sore subject here.

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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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I forgot, there were also two shootings related to different parties at different recording studios (unrelated) in the last two years that were pretty brazen, just blocks away. These were targeted shootings where the people involved all knew each other, not a random spree like the MSU shooting.

On my way to work the next day after one of them I rode by the site and the studio owners were mopping up blood in the alley. It struck me as weird they would be mopping the asphalt alley instead of spraying it down.


zombiehead wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:25 pm I haven't been anywhere near a mass shooting but the Buffalo one was close enough. I got about a million calls that day (I was at work at the time).
Yeah, that was so so very bad I can't imagine the trauma will fade. Have you ever been to that Tops?
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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Geeheeb wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:56 pm Yeah, that was so so very bad I can't imagine the trauma will fade. Have you ever been to that Tops?
I've been there a couple of times in the past, but only because I was in the area at the time. Its not a spot I would normally go to. It's about 5 or 6 miles away from me. I live about a mile between two different Tops. So I normally go to those, and they both have armed guards now. I worked at Tops when I first moved here, and they had guards at night but since the shooting they have a guard 24/7. I haven't been to the Jefferson Tops since the shooting. I know it needs to be open because it's the only real grocery store in that area, and it crippled that population when it was closed for 6 months but i don't think i could ever shop there.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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my bandmate/roommate was an EMT and he was in the ER with the non-abbott victims on the night that dime died. I think vinnie paul's hefty enough for that to be considered a mass shooting.

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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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[
spacehamster wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:32 pm
Necrophilic Mallard wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 1:16 pm Pro magazine capacity limits.
Magazine capacity limits are among the dumbest shit ever conceived by human brains.
Please, dumber then an assault weapon ban?

The justification is it allows bystanders to intervene more quickly.
Plus....wtf your need more than 10 rounds for anyway?
Off the top of my head, all of these were stopped by an unarmed bysyander:
Gabbie Giffords
Monterey Park
Seattle Pacific
Indiana Teacher
Gay club ex army soldier

I won't argue that a social safety net isn't part of it, but none of these shooters were in financial ruin, or suffering a health crisis.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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Those estimates vary widely though, and Switzerland doesn't have a centralized gun registry. The top 5 ranking I remembered is apparently placed on a survey from 2007 that's since been corrected, though, so we do actually rank lower than that. You just have to realize there are hundreds of thousands, if not over a million (and that's a lot in a country our size) WW2 rifles in people's attics that nobody knows about.
cxwx wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:13 pm Although I would agree in that in my country some kind of material limit on physical access to weaponry would make a difference considering how much more heavily armed and violent our society is than in Switzerland as there is virtually no chance of any kind of meaningful expansion of a social safety net here.
Yeah, I know. I'm not saying the solution is "oh, just fix your social safety net", it's just that if you compare Switzerland to the US, what strikes me as the reason why we haven't had a mass shooting in over 20 years and you have one every 20 minutes is that we're just not the same kind of hyper-competitive, ultra-capitalist society. Switzerland is very conservative and extremely divided too, but at the end of the day, people are relatively content and nobody's living in constant fear of losing everything next week. But yeah, changing that would require a fundamental cultural shift. Then again, so would implementing any kind of meaningful gun control, and then you'd still have a violent society, just with less access to one type of tool to do violence with.
Necrophilic Mallard wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:48 pm Please, dumber then an assault weapon ban?

The justification is it allows bystanders to intervene more quickly.
I can reload a rifle in about two seconds, and I could cut that to under a second if I actually practiced, easily. And that's what a lot of these mass shooters do, they practice, obsessively. If you think you can run at one of these guys and wrestle him to the ground in the time it takes him to reload his gun, I have to assume your name is Barry Allen.

Also, I can reload a pistol faster than a rifle, but most places that have magazine size restrictions allow twice as many rounds for pistols. It makes so much sense.

But yeah, the "assault weapons" ban is pretty stupid too.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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spacehamster wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:53 am
cxwx wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:13 pm Although I would agree in that in my country some kind of material limit on physical access to weaponry would make a difference considering how much more heavily armed and violent our society is than in Switzerland as there is virtually no chance of any kind of meaningful expansion of a social safety net here.
Yeah, I know. I'm not saying the solution is "oh, just fix your social safety net", it's just that if you compare Switzerland to the US, what strikes me as the reason why we haven't had a mass shooting in over 20 years and you have one every 20 minutes is that we're just not the same kind of hyper-competitive, ultra-capitalist society. Switzerland is very conservative and extremely divided too, but at the end of the day, people are relatively content and nobody's living in constant fear of losing everything next week. But yeah, changing that would require a fundamental cultural shift. Then again, so would implementing any kind of meaningful gun control, and then you'd still have a violent society, just with less access to one type of tool to do violence with.
Necrophilic Mallard wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:48 pm Please, dumber then an assault weapon ban?

The justification is it allows bystanders to intervene more quickly.
I can reload a rifle in about two seconds, and I could cut that to under a second if I actually practiced, easily. And that's what a lot of these mass shooters do, they practice, obsessively. If you think you can run at one of these guys and wrestle him to the ground in the time it takes him to reload his gun, I have to assume your name is Barry Allen.

Also, I can reload a pistol faster than a rifle, but most places that have magazine size restrictions allow twice as many rounds for pistols. It makes so much sense.

But yeah, the "assault weapons" ban is pretty stupid too.
You are correct, the same time of culture shift that would lead to better a social safety net would also have to occur for a more open discussion about gun control and you’re likely to have neither in the United States so outlook is rather grim.

As far as physical reloading it all depends on the situation. I remember when bump stocks were being talked about a lot right wingers were saying they were basically toys that made the gun harder to shoot and less accurate because you’re just spraying ammo around so banning them wouldn’t make a difference from a safety perspective but Stephen Paddock was just spraying into a sea of people who were packed together like sardines so his bump stocks and high capacity magazines allowed him to injure and kill people much faster then if he was needing to reload and fire semi automatic.

There was a recent video of some nut in Australia where guns are essentially totally banned who was running around attacking cars and people with a bat or a pipe and I could only imagine how many dead folks there would have been I’d he had a firearm.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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Necrophilic Mallard wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:48 pm

I won't argue that a social safety net isn't part of it, but none of these shooters were ... suffering a health crisis.
Did you mistype this or is it really what you are trying to say?
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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spacehamster wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:53 am
Those estimates vary widely though, and Switzerland doesn't have a centralized gun registry. The top 5 ranking I remembered is apparently placed on a survey from 2007 that's since been corrected, though, so we do actually rank lower than that. You just have to realize there are hundreds of thousands, if not over a million (and that's a lot in a country our size) WW2 rifles in people's attics that nobody knows about.
The US is beyond the point of correcting the issue with improvements to social programs alone. There are more guns than people in a country with a population of 330+ million. If someone has a bad day and goes looking for a gun, it's not exactly difficult for them to get one.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

Post by featherboa »

sorry man. hope you can de stress somehow.

never been near a shooting that i recall.
I was employed at disneyland when 9/11 happened. so i saw security... change.
then a little later in life i'd go there to install A/V stuff as a contractor and they'd like search my car with mirrors on a stick and stuff like that.

also now there are police dogs and metal detectors between the parking lot and the real entrance. it's like the TSA. very magical experience.
i think this is more from epidemic of mass shootings than from 9/11
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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Hunter wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:46 am There are more guns than people in a country with a population of 330+ million. If someone has a bad day and goes looking for a gun, it's not exactly difficult for them to get one.
There's really no putting that toothpaste back in the tube, though. You can make it harder for people to get new guns with waiting periods and background checks, but there's so many guns everywhere, like you say, a lot of people are still going to be able to get their hands on one. And good luck trying to reduce that number with confiscation or mandatory buybacks.

And btw, I'm not against waiting periods and background checks. But at the end of the day, that's still tackling the symptom and not the cause.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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the pigs choose what they enforce. they are fascist. gun regulations mean only a certain type of person has certain types of guns. liberals disarming minorities, the "left".

i have a good idea for law: only women can have guns. no pigs can have guns. or just don't have pigs ideally.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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spacehamster wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:04 am
Hunter wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:46 am There are more guns than people in a country with a population of 330+ million. If someone has a bad day and goes looking for a gun, it's not exactly difficult for them to get one.
There's really no putting that toothpaste back in the tube, though. You can make it harder for people to get new guns with waiting periods and background checks, but there's so many guns everywhere, like you say, a lot of people are still going to be able to get their hands on one. And good luck trying to reduce that number with confiscation or mandatory buybacks.

And btw, I'm not against waiting periods and background checks. But at the end of the day, that's still tackling the symptom and not the cause.
If the steps for obtaining a weapon legally are more difficult, it could help prevent some mass shootings outright.

"The 18-year-old suspect in the Buffalo shooting passed an instant background check without a glitch and bought a used Bushmaster XM-15 semiautomatic rifle, dodging New York’s red flag law barring the mentally ill from buying weapons despite recently undergoing a psychological evaluation after making menacing, violent comments to high school classmates."

Taken from 200 Mass Shootings So Far This Year; Most with Legal Guns
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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Geeheeb wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:25 am
Necrophilic Mallard wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:48 pm

I won't argue that a social safety net isn't part of it, but none of these shooters were ... suffering a health crisis.
Did you mistype this or is it really what you are trying to say?
I believe he meant to type “mental health crisis”
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

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cxwx wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:31 pm
Geeheeb wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:25 am
Necrophilic Mallard wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:48 pm

I won't argue that a social safety net isn't part of it, but none of these shooters were ... suffering a health crisis.
Did you mistype this or is it really what you are trying to say?
I believe he meant to type “mental health crisis”
Maybe?
Most were just incels, and not having a mental, or other health crisis.
There's been an uptick in old guys though.
I didn't get the impression that any of them were broken men (e.g. financial or health), but I've also long since given up trying to rationalize what causes someone to do something like this.

I'm not positive that a proper social safety net would have made any difference for them, but I won't argue it wouldn't.

JSC on YouTube has had at least 2 mass killers on there. One straight up said he felt like it was his duty as an incel.
The other might as well have been, but didn't self-identity.
The old guys tend to off themselves before getting caught, and would probably just lawyer up anyway.
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Re: Mass Shooting Mass Effect Thread

Post by Necrophilic Mallard »

Hunter wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:21 pm
spacehamster wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:04 am
Hunter wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:46 am There are more guns than people in a country with a population of 330+ million. If someone has a bad day and goes looking for a gun, it's not exactly difficult for them to get one.
There's really no putting that toothpaste back in the tube, though. You can make it harder for people to get new guns with waiting periods and background checks, but there's so many guns everywhere, like you say, a lot of people are still going to be able to get their hands on one. And good luck trying to reduce that number with confiscation or mandatory buybacks.

And btw, I'm not against waiting periods and background checks. But at the end of the day, that's still tackling the symptom and not the cause.
If the steps for obtaining a weapon legally are more difficult, it could help prevent some mass shootings outright.

"The 18-year-old suspect in the Buffalo shooting passed an instant background check without a glitch and bought a used Bushmaster XM-15 semiautomatic rifle, dodging New York’s red flag law barring the mentally ill from buying weapons despite recently undergoing a psychological evaluation after making menacing, violent comments to high school classmates."

Taken from 200 Mass Shootings So Far This Year; Most with Legal Guns
I agree with this...a lot of mass shooters have purchased them legally.
The problem is how you filter them out.
Scrub their internet profile first?

Also, the per Capita numbers are a bit skewed... There are many people who own multiple guns and skew the numbers, but they're secured and will never be used for a nefarious purpose.
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